Then and Now

[red70goat]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The Champ:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
Lets see a picture of that 70 GTO please. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah... I really want to see that Endura "option" on the '70 GTO. I've never seen one with the "optional" Endura front end... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Give it up. You both know what I was talking about in reference to Pontiac loosely promoting the Jury as a poor mans Judge. I also specifically said it was a LeMans although you'd never admit it.

[judge_jury_executioner_69]

so GM didnt base this motor off the small block 350 and improve it? they made some brand new engine overnight that wasnt based off anythign that they successfully have done for several decades? you take somethign that works well and improve on it to make it better and make what isnt so good about it great. this is GM were talking about here. theyre not gonna spend that much money on something that wont work. well until the 04 GTO. 05 is getting better. but its not there yet.

[judge_jury_executioner_69]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dragncar:
Champ,if any one thinks for one second that the LS1 would be around today if it were not for the sbc they are beond help.The lS1 is not "the" sbc it is the new Chevy small block,period.As soon as I figure out how to scan and post the page out of GMs catalog I will.You can only hide behind that weak "clean" sheet of paper" stuff so long.In the meantime I think I will vent on why real fans of Pontiac should hate Chevy.Back in the day(60s,70s)when Pontiac could build their own engines they had great men working for them(Delorean,Mackeller,Tom Nell).They were forward thinking men with big ideas.Remember Pontiac started the muscle car era in 64 and Chevy was not to happy about it.Pontiac wanted to be the fastest in GM,Many projects were snuffed out by Ed Cole,GMs boss and a guy who came up through Chevorletes Corvette program.Single Over Head Cam 428,Ram Air 5 and Ram Air 6 were dissalowed by Cole.Pontiacs enginers had big balls and wanted to build inovative powerful stuff.And not for special race only,but for production mass produced real world usage.It scared Chevy.Pontiacs old inline OHC six was nothing more than a test bed for what they realy wanted to build,a 500HP SOHC 428 that would blow Chevys doors off.Pontiac was set to go with it and Cole killed it.The Ram Air 5 400 made 500HP,Chevy and Cole could not have it,they had the power to kill it.Pontiac wanted to competewith its own 2 seater the Banshee.Only it would have had a Ram Air 6.A RA5 headed 428 with a 3 inch main forged crank and 2 fours.Same thing,Chevy was scared of what Pontiac raely wanted to build and hinderd them all they could.Our best motor ended up being a RA 4 with cast rods.These other two motors I am not shure what killed them.Pontiac was set to go with a RA4 455 in 71.Forged rod,10 to 1 455 with RA4 valvetrain.Never happend.The heads were 90 cc with a pusrod tube like the 73,74 SD 455.Some are still around.This stuff eventually became the SD455.Here is the kicker.In 70 Pontiac built a aluminum SOHC fuel injected 427 Hemi.Examples of all of these motors are still around to this day.These motors could have changed everything as far as American muscle cars.If Pontiac only could have been alowed to produce the motors that Nell and Mackeller worked so hard for they would have set the standard.And why should I get exited about some no frills pushrod LS1 when Pontiac built far more advanced motors over 30 years ago.The same guys (Chevy) who stopped Pontiac are putting their motor in a car that is not even a Pontiac and slapping GTO on it.It realy is a joke. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

cant forget that GM wouldnt allow pontiac to put a 428 in the 68 or 69 GTO. pontiac was working on a DOHC 421 also. take a minute and read this site
http://www.pontiacheaven.org/about%2...c%20heaven.htm it has a lot of good info on it

[Mr_GTO]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dragncar:
Do not ever"comment ever again on any Pontiac model".Mr-GTO if I were to do that I would deprive myself the satisfaction of getting under the skin of all of you sellouts who think of the 04 as a real GTO.Thought about buying the SAE paper but all I had to do was pay attention to magazines,since I am a real Pontiac fan I usually bypass Chevy LS this LS that stuff and go right to the real Pontiac stuff.I pay attention now that I am on this thread talking to all of the sellouts.Found out all that I have to know.Looking at the exaust side of the head,It is a small block chebby.If the sbs was never invented the LS1 would not be in existence.That is a fact.LS1 is a fine motor with a lot of improvments but it is a chebby, and not a Pontiac.I took a look at the LSI in Popular Hot Roddings Engine Masters.They describe it as"Chevys LS1"."The gen 3 small-block is generally refered to as the LS1,primarily because that was its code when it was introduced in the 97 Corvette.""Just like any other small-block Chevy,you need to align the dot on the cam gear with the one on the crankshaft gear before removing the cam."All of these are quotes out the article.If any of you think the LS1 is anything other than GMs latest high tec wiz bang version of the venerable small block Chevy you are well ....stupid or ..ignorant or just a cool aid drinking take what is shoved down our throats wanabes.Here is what you 04 gto guys do.Take your cars down to the strip,it will be fun you know bang some gears burn some rubber.And complete the look of the rice burner with a 4 foot aluminum wing,slap a vertical row of gauges up in your left corner and do not forget the Nitto tires.Then go hang out with all of the Pontiac guys.See how your car is treated.Thing is some guys will not have a problem with it,might even think it is kind of cool.Some guys might not care one way or the other,take it or leave it.And then there are the hard core guys.They will hate on it,will not accept it.Some of the big dogs in the Pontiac word call the 04 a mistake,that is just the way it is.I am not one of them just a self addmited 04 gto hater.And I have not said anything realy inflammatory yet. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Last time I checked, it only matters if PONTIAC says it is a GTO. They do, it matches and BEATS EVERYTHING the old one did in EVERY aspect, so I do too. If you don't, then you are the one in denial.

Please find me where GM calls it a CHEVROLET V8. Not magazines. magazines don't make the codes for the motors and they don't designate anything. The last PONTIAC was made in 1981, get over it.

Nitto tires are used by a great deal of people. You calling them "ricer" shows your utter ignorance.

Fact of the matter is that most of the original gto's aren't stock and never will be. Some were quick, most were not. Every 04 is comfortable and is able to be driven across country without a hickup and get 29mpg and run low 13's right out of the showroom. the 05 will be even better. Don't be bitter. If you don't like it, leave this forum, go drive what ever it is you drive and be carefull if you come up against a new GTO, it might just blow your doors off.

[The Who]

I don't know what you're smoking, but the GTO might not stand out a lot, but it sure as hell doesnt look like all those other cars, not even close to it. Just the headlights and split grill is dinstinctive from the others.

[Mr_GTO]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:
so GM didnt base this motor off the small block 350 and improve it? they made some brand new engine overnight that wasnt based off anythign that they successfully have done for several decades? you take somethign that works well and improve on it to make it better and make what isnt so good about it great. this is GM were talking about here. theyre not gonna spend that much money on something that wont work. well until the 04 GTO. 05 is getting better. but its not there yet. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, they didn't. It was a clean sheet of paper design. NOT ONE SINGLE PART interchanges between the two. You are EXTREMELY IGNORANT in your knowledge of what GM is doing today and your posts prove it. You don't even have a clue do you?

[Tripower455]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:
i hope with 26+ years of technology it would be a better engine. go ahead and take my 428 and put all the computer bs on it and it would be faster too. a computer can tune a lot better/faster then i can. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow, you almost admitted that the LS-1 is a better engine than your 428!

26+ years of technological improvements HAVE resulted in a better engine, even if it isn't painted blue.

So where's the problem?

[RandyW]

I guess that means those 4 bangers will outrun the old GTO's, too!!!

[rabon008]

Just an extra bit of info: Chevy didn't start putting 350 c.i.d. engines in cars until 67-68. I believe if any division of GM can lay claim to the 5.7 litre V8 it would be Pontiac for the 347 c.i.d. in 1957.

[rabon008]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dragncar:
Hi Guys,working long hours for the next week or so I do not have time to "ramble".But I will,kind of like it.The more I find out on the LS1 the more I think it is a sbc.Gen 3 I think they call it.That is for later.Mr.Brady,you might want me to tell you what I think, but the people who run this site might not.This site gets a lot of trafic and I love it.Want to stay on it.I am "gogoat " from "Dudes" board but it seems dead now so I come here.I do not cut the 04 GTO down because I compaire cars of the eras,I am not stuipid.Contrary to what some people might think on this thread.I am a Pontiac die hard.I discount the 04 GTO without even seeing it in person,I do not think of it as a GTO,or a real Pontiac.It is a Monero with a gen 3 sbc,period.Pontiacs lost thier heart and soul after 1979.Were no longer Pontiacs.I will talk on what Pontiac could have and should have had later,if it were not for Chevy later.Now limits,the limits are changing fast.real fast.Even though you are invested in that bbc I hope you will come back when you find out the gap is closing,fast. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Good, so then don't ever comment ever again on any Pontiac model no matter how good it is and no matter how bad it spanks every other Pontiac that came before it ok?

And the LS1 is NOT a SMALL BLOCK CHEVY. It is a small block but it ain't a chevy. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Having answered dragncar's own requirement ("If any sbc crank will "lay down in the saddles" correctly it is a sbc.") with my previous post concerning the SAE paper, he is evidently still searching for the "right" criteria to call the LS1 a small block chevy. Comparing the very few commonalities between a sbc or LT1 are like saying all "A" frame cars were just next generation Fords (or whoever originated the "A" frame design).

[The Who]

Isn't it kind of normal that a Pontiac looks like a Pontiac? I agree the GTO should stand out more, but to make it so it doesnt look like a Pontiac, I don't think so. IMO owning a Pontiac is something "special", and if people look at my dad's 04 GTP and know its a Pontiac, then good, thats how it should be. I don't care what others have to say, I'm man and old enough to have an opinion on my own I don't need to be brain washed by what others think of this car, or what some guy from GM has to say either.

[salokin]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If you can do all that to an 04 sounds to me like an everyday car and nothing special just goes to prove the point many of us have been saying you cherish the 69 the real GTO and the half breed is just a driver so much for that argument <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is such a lame statement, as if the 69 GTO's when new they were bought as weekend and Summer only drivers. They were driven everyday as daily drivers also.

[Mr_GTO]

Dragncar, read it and weep.

http://gmhightechperformance.com/features/0405htp_ls2/

LS2: An Inside Look
We open it up to see what makes the new Gen IV small-block tick

By Barry Kluczyk


When it was introduced for the 1997 model year in the then-new fifth-generation Corvette, the Gen III small-block was indeed a revolution. It was the first redesign of the basic small-block architecture since Chevrolet introduced it in 1955.

Although it retained the characteristic 4.4-inch bore centers, there was nothing else really the same between the old and the new. Not surprisingly, there was some initial trepidation on the part of enthusiasts. After all, several generations had grown up with the ubiquitous small-block Chevy. Its performance, reliability and affordability were the measures against which other engines were compared.


It didn't take long, however, for those same enthusiasts to be swayed by the new LS1. Like the original small-block, it was powerful, reliable and has since proved itself a fantastic foundation for extracurricular horsepower exploration--heck, you can get an extra 100 horses out of an LS1 just by staring cross-eyed at it.
With the 2005 model year, the LS1 is superceded by the 6.0-liter LS2. It goes into the new 2005 Corvette, as well as the '05 Pontiac GTO and Chevy SSR. It's rated at 400 horsepower and 400 lb.-ft. of torque, with a high, 10.9:1 compression ratio and a 6500-rpm redline. GM calls the architecture for the LS2 (and its truck-oriented Vortec variants) the Gen IV small-block. We think that's a bit of a stretch (you'll understand why shortly), but it nevertheless opens a new chapter in late-model GM performance.

FAMILIAR FOUNDATION

Like we said, GM says the LS2 is built on the new Gen IV small-block architecture. The primary difference between it and the previous Gen III engines is a new block casting. It actually is just a revised version of the Gen III's cylinder case. In fact, the blocks are so similar that many of the Gen III parts carry over, including LS6-style cylinder heads used on the LS2. Here are the differences between the Gen III and Gen IV blocks: Aluminum and iron (truck) versions are cast with new oil galleries to facilitate Displacement on Demand technology (see sidebar story).

Engine knock sensors relocated from cylinder bank valley to external locations. Camshaft position sensor relocated from the rear of the block to the front. Cylinder bores increased from 3.90 inches to 4.00 inches (LS2 applications). Similar to the LS6 block, the PCV valve was moved from the rocker covers to inside the valley.

The remainder of the block's features, from the six-bolt main bearing cap design (four vertical bolts and two cross-bolts) and deep-skirted case remain unchanged.

At the bottom of the block, LS2 engines installed in Corvettes receive a revised oil pan. Redesigned interior baffles in the pan are designed to ensure an adequate oil supply to the oil pump pick-up during high-load cornering maneuvers. The previous Corvette/LS1 combination used a "gull wing" oil pan design, but oil starvation was an issue that more than one enthusiast encountered on the racetrack. With the new, wingless oil pan design, the Corvette's oil capacity is reduced from 6.5 quarts to 5.5 quarts (with a dry filter).

SHORT BLOCK

Complementing the revised engine block is a new reciprocating assembly for the LS2. The crankshaft still delivers a 3.62-inch stroke, but the pistons have a true flat-top design and rings with lower tension. Lower tension reduces friction to free up horsepower.

The LS2's pistons also have full floating wrist pins that help reduce the piston "slap" noise that's common to Gen III engines. Interestingly some customers, particularly truck owners, have complained about piston slap, but there's no real evidence to indicate it causes premature engine wear--we know of a couple Gen III-powered GMC pickups at the GM Proving Ground, outside Detroit, that each have more than 400,000 miles on their original Vortec engines.

Another LS6 carryover part is the high-lift camshaft, which helps greatly in the department covered by the next section of our story.

CYLINDER HEADS

The new, 6.0-liter LS2 taps into a pair of proven winners in the breathing department: the Corvette Z06-derived LS6 cylinder heads. Compared to the standard LS1 heads, the LS6-style lungs feature raised intake ports and a combustion chamber design with unshrouded valves. This design, GM claims, when combined with the engine's flat-top pistons, produces a more efficient swirl of the air/fuel mixture. This efficiency allows a higher, 10.9:1 compression ratio--vs. 10.1:1 on the LS1 and 10.5:1 on the LS6--helping the engine attain 400 horsepower and, we're told, better fuel economy than the smaller-displacement LS1.

Like the LS6, the LS2's valves measure 2.00 inches for the intake and 1.55 inches for the exhaust. The valve springs are designed to handle the engine's 6500-rpm rev range. It's the engine's comparatively high compression ratio--a level not seen in some time on a performance-oriented V-8--that surely will have turbo and supercharger manufacturers wondering how much boost can be put to the LS2 before it arrives at Detonation City. At first blush, we'd think not too much!

THROTTLE BODY AND INTAKE MANIFOLD

All Gen IV small-blocks receive a new throttle body; for the LS2 it's a huge, single-blade 90mm design that incorporates a motor to actuate the throttle's operation with electronic throttle control (ETC).

All LS2 engines will have electronic throttle control, which dispenses with the traditional cable-operated throttle operation. Instead, input from the gas pedal tells the computer how much throttle movement is needed.

Those with an extra-large throttle body on their high-powered LS1 (or LT1 for that matter) know that single-blade designs can be a little touchy, but GM says ETC helps ensure the big, 90mm throttle body provides smooth, predictable performance. It also eliminates the need for an idle air control motor, cruise control module and the "throttle relaxer" for traction control.

The LS2's throttle body is mounted to the intake manifold on a slight upward angle to reduce water puddling at the bottom of the throttle body. The manifold itself isn't revolutionary; just an evolution of the cross-over plenum design of the LS1 and LS6. As with the Gen III versions, the LS2's manifold is made from lightweight composite material and comes in basic black.

By the way, if you've ever questioned the efficiency of this manifold design, you'll want to take a look at the new, three-valve version of the 4.6 "cammer" motor in the coming '05 Mustang; its intake manifold looks nearly identical--including the front-and-center throttle body location--to the LS1/LS6/LS2 design.

EXHAUST MANIFOLDS

A new exhaust manifold design is used for the LS2, bringing a "best of both worlds" advantage--improved flow and reduced mass. GM tells us the new manifolds are fully one-third lighter than previous designs.

Much of the change comes from reducing the wall thickness of the manifold's outlets from 4mm to 3mm. This change contributed to the overall weight loss, while give the interior passages a 4 percent increase in flow.

There are other minor design tweaks, too, to accommodate revised emissions equipment, but it's the lighter, improved flow design that is the newsworthy item here.

ACCESSORIES AND IGNITION

Many components that are standard on the LS2 found their way into production on late versions of Gen III engines. The water pump, for example, carries over, but it is different from early LS1 engines. Its revised design, with improved sealing, is said to greatly reduce the chances of a leak (it weighs less, too). Also, a stronger timing chain was incorporated into Gen III production and it carries over to the Gen IV. All-new to the Gen IV engine, however, is an improved ignition coil pack system.

The ignition system is still a coil-near-plug design, but the coil packs are more efficient and require less energy to deliver virtually the same spark energy as the LS1's coil packs.

FINAL THOUGHTS

Yes, the LS2 has all the material to build on the success of the LS1 and take GM performance to exciting new levels. The rumors about the next Corvette Z06 model indicate the 400-horsepower level of the '05 engines is truly just the beginning.

[Mr_GTO]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dragncar:
Time to stir it up,so get your keyboards ready.Remember now boys and girls this is just my opinion but............All Pontiac enthusiast are not equal.At the top are names like Delorean,Mackeller,Nell and all of the great people trying to keep the Pontiac V8 alive and more powerful than it ever was.Guys risking their reputations and fortunes.The Butlers,Kaufmans,the guys at all Pontiac,DCI(I wonder how the majority of them feel about the new GTO,more than one has told me it was a mistake)These people are taking off where Pontiac was forced to stop developing their V8.Just think of where the motor would be if the hard work of Mackellar and Nell was alowed to pay off.And at the bottom of the barrel are the guys who put a BBC in a old GTO or Bird beacause they want to go fast.You know the type,guy puts in a BBC to run 11s or 10s,we have all seen themAnd I am not talking about someone who wants to run 7s.Next from the bottom are the people who install a late model engine(chevy) in a 69 Firebird beacause they want a modern FI motor.They think they are doing something cool when it ruins the car.I have seen some nice cars like this and they realy $uck.The are not smart enough to figure out how to do it with a real Pontiac V8.It is not hard to install electronic fuel injection,hyd roller cam ect in a Pontiac.Just takes effort.Next are the people who were rubbing their hands together waiting for the 04 GTO.The nerds of the Pontiac world.They just do not get it.Keep going up and you will find all of the loyal Pontiac fans,the ones who get it.And then you have all of the people who helped keep the Pontiac motor going when there were no aftermarker heads and blocks,Nunzi,Taylor,Spotts, Hand ect.All great men as far as I am concerned.So go on bring your 04 out to the track,some people will not mind but your car will get the cold shoulder from more than just a few.That is just the way it is and there is nothing you can do about it.That sentiment is just the reason the new gto will never be a big winner. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have no problem with this other than saying that people who put LT1's or LS1's in older cars because they don't know how to make a Pontiac go. That just ain't so.

Ever read these forums where people have issues EACH AND EVERY DAY with rear main seals, which heads to use, intakes leaking, water pumps not getting the job done, etc et al. Why put up with that BS if you are going to drive a car every day and you can go just turn the key and it starts up? And is dead nuts reliable? And can be serviced at ANY GM dealer if need be?

And FYI, I am planning on a EFI, Aluminum head, 5spd roller camed 455 for my GTO and possibly another Pontiac A-body with a LS1 based motor.

Don't worry, there is enough track space for new GTO's to compete. Tell you what, bring your car to Houston or Bowling Green in the summer and race MTI's or BMR's GTO and see what happens. I hope you're already in the 10's...

[pont3]

I agree totally with you, Projectfolly, but I hope you have your shield in place. I wrote a similar post recently and I was met with plenty of opposition, called stupid for buying one yada, yada, yada. Funny, though, I don't feel stupid at all. How people can call someone stupid for buying what one wants with his own hard earned money is beyond me. They same to forget that the '73 GTO looked exactly like the '73 Grand AM. I think we all were intially put off by the stying of the New GTO but some of us looked beyond that and considered the total package. As I stated before, this is only the beginning of a come back of the GTO. While the first attempt may be considered a failure by some it is an attempt I am very glad they made. Subsequent attempts will be met with skepticism as well but Pontiac will eventually give us what we want.

[Dragncar]

Hi guys,now only a few more long winded rants left.I just have to get it out of my system.You guys sure are hanging on to that crank lay down stuff.Honestly I asked the question beacause I knew very little about the LS1,only that it was Chevys new small block.It was not my criteria,just something I needed to know.It will not "lay down",fine.Changes nothing.(by the way I have asked now 3 times,if the sbc was never invented would the LS1 be around)Nobody has ever challenged that.Nobody can.It makes the LS1 Chevys new small block.Sorry it is a fact.GM does not even make anymore sbc,s it turns out,only crate motors.Only Gen 3s in new cars and trucks.You guys asked for facts.It took a while but found out a few and nobody wants to admit I an right as far as the LS1 being Chevys new small block.It is right in front of your face.Gave you the publication,the page,part number and everything.I said at the start some people just do not get it.And mrs-gto,why..............did you post a pic of a Mustang 2 that is all you have.Why are you taking about that car.The point was Ford Made the car look retro,kind of like a 69 mach One,pretty good jod on there part.And if it has one of those 280 somthing cube blown twin overhead cam hemis in it power will not be an problem.Nowdays GM is missing the boat as far as performance stuff,Mopar and Ford are walking all over tham.And I am a GM guy.Too many bean counters involved on GMs part.

[Tripower455]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dragncar:
I think I hit a nerve with the under the skin stuff.Mr-gto please.I will be back later to finish you guys off.Do not have time now.Bludgeoning you guys will have to come later. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Troll........

[68GTOConv]

Isn't there some kind of filter that could be put in place to disallow "pro new GTO" messages ... or must we just continue to rely on the bashing that has become commonplace.

This is almost 2005 - Surely there is some technology we could deploy to stop these objective well-stated comments at the source :-)

Mike M

[carbking]

Rabon - just be glad the fuel injection system has been slightly improved from the 1957 unit. I knew a gentleman who bought one new in 1957, who then bought coaster diaphragms by the dozen; and kept at least 2 in the glove box so he could make it to the store and back without calling the tow truck.

The design was changed for the 1958 unit, making it somewhat more reliable, although still no guarantee you would make it home.

I have long contended that the cell phone was invented due to the reliability of electronic ignition and modern fuel injection; maybe the CB radio was invented due to the reliability of the early fuel injection systems!!!

And you are quite correct about carburetors. We proved conclusively doing the early 1980's that even feedback carburetors could not meter fuel AT LOW VELOCITY sufficiently well to meet emission standards, and no, we won't be going back. However, for the older vehicles, I MUCH prefer the characteristics of carburetion over fuel injection (cost, reliability, ease of installation, reliability, ease of modification, reliability, tuneability for the novice, reliability, ease of repair, reliability, etc.).

Jon.

[rabon008]

SAE Technical Paper 970915 titled "1997 GM 5.7 Liter LS1 V8 Engine".

This paper is written by seven GM Designers and Engineers and relates the DESIGN of the (then) new LS1 engine. I cannot post the entire paper because SAE sells them at $12 bucks a copy ($9.60 for members). All the specs are in the back of the paper and there are numerous differences to the SBC/LT1. Overall block length is shorter, block width is wider, firing order was changed to reduce crank arm stress and improve main bearing life, the crankshaft nose was lengthened while the overall length of the crank is shorter by more than an inch. Side pods were added to the cylinder block and ventilation holes where added to the cylinder block bulkheads. In addition to these there are significant sealing systems, valve and head design differences, etc. that set the LS1 apart from the SBC/LT1. If you really want to know that the LS1 is NOT the SBC/LT1 "dressed up" but rather a new design, then I suggest you buy the paper. You might learn something. It's very technical but very interesting reading for us engineers.