Nothing's changed! - Page 16 - PY Online Forums

red70goat · #1 12-15-2004, 06:37 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ozzy:
red70goat wrote:
Name me one post where I made any mention to anybody on this forum of their family..... Nearly all of my posts have been aimed at GMs lack of effort in reviving the GTO. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just picked a few sentences out from some of your previous ramblings... Uhh, I mean posts...

“The only ones that like this car are pre-pubescent tuners”

“...Read my post again moron. If your intellect is above that of a lug wrench you will see I was indicating the availability of the delete option.”

“you're right: the average american doesn't get it and the stupid ones are buying it.”

“However there is no law in this country against you being attracted to fat chicks”

I could list a lot more, but I think my point is made.

Keep up the good work![/QUOTE]

>>> again, name 1 post where I made any mention of a family memebr.

red70goat · #2 12-09-2004, 02:09 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Tripower455:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> Perhaps the Beemer / Chevelle comment was from Radon or Mr_GTO. My apologies if it was. As far as the cost to do a resto: I was told as you have indicated: about 20K then double it. This was my whole point for the contention on this board: There are people here who think you've got no right to criticize the New GTO unless you're some sort of a collector, have an award winning vintage goat, etc. When I logged on a year ago I was hit with an onslaught of insults, allegations, etc from all the hallowed "experts". Given I make my living arguing with people ( atty )then I jumped into the fray. I actually logged on to see web pages on other GTO's that had been restored. (Champs, Dannys, yours) I'm using some of these as a guide to restore my 70, particularly Dannys. I keep waiting to see a 70 pop up. Personally, I get more out of reading posts from those that don't have an "award winning" Goat such as Heff or Disco but are passionate about their rides. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
We all have a common love of Pontiacs here, and can differ in opinion and argue, but at least contribute something positive!

>>> That was my original intent a year or so ago and I got slammed. I personally think the 04 is a good car. As a GTO I don't like it, but nobody is forcing me or anybody else to buy it. I just like to pick a fight with the "experts" who think they are better than others because they have this or that sitting in their garage or something on a wall / trophy case.

>>>> You've got a cool GTO, that I would LOVE to see restified. Let's talk about that! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

>>> Deal.If you know of anybody that has a web page showing their restified 70 Goat I'd like to see it....haven't decided if I'm going to go with a full resto, maybe a Judge clone or something close to a pro-street look. I would love to continue to drive it as you are able to do so in sunny FL, but in Utah the road salt would chew up a 34 yr. old undercarriage in a couple of years.

Snowbound · #3 12-11-2004, 11:14 PM

DJ, I wouldn't go as far as putting in a V6. They already have that in the G6. I think what they need is a more affordable optioned car. Drop the leather and traction control. People didn't buy muscle cars for the power windows and A/C back in the 60's. I think the same can be said for today, but not to the same level.

If they could come in with a MSRP around $25k they might actually compete for some of the Mustang GT buyers.

Same goes for the Caddy CTS-V. Great concept, but drop all the fancy crap like nav systems and make it affordable.

Mr_GTO · #4 12-06-2004, 09:12 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Nickv:
Don't want to rain on your parade Mr GTO. But, Chevrolet will not catch Ford Division in U.S. sales this year.

After nine months, Chevy had drawn to within 8,303 sales of Ford. But Ford dealers applied a full-court press in October and November and pretty well blew Chevrolet out of the game.

Ford beat Chevy by 14,780 sales in October and 12,150 in November to bring its advantage to 35,233. That lead appears to be too big for Chevrolet to erase. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The year ain't over yet.

red70goat · #5 12-21-2004, 10:21 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Tripower455:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> when you comapre the V8 of the GTO and the 4 banger of the EVO VIII youd think the GTO should kill the EVO VIII. what happened to "theres no replacement for displacement"

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tripower said:
The GTO achieved the numbers with normal aspiration, due to it's displacement.

Put a SC or turbo on the GTO, and do you think that the numbers would even be close?

You are comparing a V-8 RWD Pontiac to a rice burner? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, what tripower said!

... furthermore, if the tuner crowd wants to talk hp per liter: (hp/L) Pontiac Soltice 2.2L @ 240 hp = 120 hp/L or how about Dodge Spirit R/T 2.2L @ 224 hp = 102 hp/L. What about the cost to get a ricer motor up to the hp a domestic big block offers?: Hot Rod Magazine 1998 500 hp build up: 455 Buick vs Honda VTEC: Cost of Buick to get to 500hp: $3296 US / Honda VTEC to 500 hp: $10,500 US. However if the tuner crowd really wants to argue that displacement means nothing then they could use the North American Model Airplane engine in their beloved riceburners. These engines @ .0065L produce 169hp/L. Appprox. 195 of these engines inside an import would produce 300 hp thereby eliminating the need for a single V8.

RandyW · #6 12-07-2004, 12:28 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by whatza monaro??:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Randy W:
Mustangs and Corvettes are not muscle cars, never were! . <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Randy, once again you prove your lack of intellect. If you bothered to read my post you would see that I put the world "Musclecar" in the context of market terminology, not automotive definition, thus the apostrophies. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My lack of intellect, as you put it, should be phrased as lack of gramatical aptitude, terminology is learned not genetically transferred! By the way, those aren't "apostophies", they are quotation marks! With that out of the way, I wasn't specifically refering to just your use of the word "musclecar", but in general to it's improper usage. Notice, I didn't quote you that time?

rabon008 · #7 12-12-2004, 09:11 AM

Roll your eyes all you want Danny but NO ONE has given me sales numbers of any car in the same class as the GTO that are better. Give me numbers and source. Many people want a Taurus, a 6 cylinder stang, or a weaka$$ V8 stang, show me the numbers on something that matches the GTO in performance and price!

Goat luver · #8 12-08-2004, 08:24 PM

"Whatever. That was a year or so ago and I don't remember exactly what it was. It was something similar to red70goat. Who cares? Given that it was a year ago, and not recently used it may have been removed. As far as my public profile it does say what my 70 is. For your benefit it is a 70/400 ci / 3 spd manual...bone stock right down to the wheels. Who's fishing for an argument now troll?[/QUOTE]

So, Mr Whatza Monaro, when do we get to see a picture of your old beater??

red70goat · #9 11-27-2004, 07:42 PM

-

red70goat · #10 12-10-2004, 06:39 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ozzy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Rabon:
red70goat (aka whatza monaro) wrote: If the 04 had been instantly recognizable as a GTO I doubt anybody would have cared much where it was built.

SUUURE...and I suppose if there had been a gap of 30 years with no production cars in between your '70 and the original '64 everyone would have instantly recognized it as a goat. Right. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rab: Once again you prove my observation that those who challenge GMs attempt of reviving the GTO on a Monaro platform with generic designing are percieved as not as "knowledgeable" as those who embrace it. Given the well documented negative reaction to the introduction of the 04 it was easily ascertained that the core of the negativity was found in the lack of retro cues. As far as a 30 yr. gap between the my 70 and the original 64: That didn't happen, the GTO went on to establish itself as a legendary musclecar so your supposition has no merit. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course Rabon's supposition has merit. Just because it didn't happen doesn't stop the scenerio from being set. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uhhh, Ok. Nobody is saying it's wrong to set a scenario no matter how ridiculous or inapplicable. Make us another one Rab.

" Forgive Bob Lutz, For he knows not what they want".

red70goat · #11 11-25-2004, 10:47 AM

True..nothing's changed...This is still a car nobody wants. BTW: Last summer I test drove a Torrid Red one that had been sitting for months at Jerry Seiner GMC Pontiac in SLC...I got 2 "thumbs down" southbound on I-15. In reality the imported for GM Holden Monaro is a worthy performance sedan. Regardless of the GTO badges inside and out I didn't feel like I was driving a GTO but rather a souped up GrandAm. The sheep hair in the finish didn't help either.

The Champ · #12 12-15-2004, 08:20 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
>>> I don't where you got that idea. I said from the beginning that the "Jury" was a LeMans that had been outfitted from a dealer and marketed as a "Poor Mans GTO". Go back and check my original post on the "Jury". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe because in your original post, you claimed that the Endura front end was an option on the GTO, and you used the "Jury" to support your claim. You know I'm right. Admit it. You'll feel better.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:>>>> Thank you. I've worked hard to attain that lofty status. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hope you're proud of your status...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:>>>> Many times, because I don't consider the GM Monaro to be a GTO. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your opinion is duly noted, but not considered a valid one IMO.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:>>> Well, with all the feedback I've had on this subject I'm starting to think maybe I should hit it with a buffer, armourall the vinyl top and do just that. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe if you actually drove it, it might improve your disposition...

It may be below freezing here today, but it's clear and sunny right now and there isn't any snow yet. I might just have to warm up the cars and shred some tires today for the last time this year!!!

Nickv · #13 11-25-2004, 09:04 PM

What a BS thread!! Wah!! Crybaby's!!

RandyW · #14 12-05-2004, 05:32 PM

For the record, I don't own a new GTO, though I have owned a '65 conv. and a '66 conv. over the years.
I just looked at this forum to see what owners thought of thier cars. What I found was you and your hang up about "Monaros" and your attempt at looking smart. Really you only look like a smarta$$! Why don't you post a couple of pics under your 'real' user name, of you and your cars? I'd like to see what a perfect individual looks like! You must be the most insecure s.o.b. on the planet, to make you feel you need to bash people online. I'm sure in person, you would hide behind mommie!

red70goat · #15 12-14-2004, 09:38 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by The Champ:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
So, I submitted a few posts that were in no way derogatory, but suggested that Pontiac should consider retro styling and 2 engine options if they want to save the GTO. No matter what one says on this forum, unless you are totally behind GMs current attempt to revive the GTO then you know nothing about cars, you're an idiot, a troll, blah, blah, blah. Even the fact I've got a GTO which I've kept all factory right down to the lugnuts and it still runs well after 34 years and 278,000 miles apparantly unless you've got some sort of award that doesn't qualify you as a "car guy". According to Champ and others, I've got a beater, etc. If I was an 04 owner, I'd be heralded for keeping it in such an unmolested state. BTW Champ: Name me 1 post where I bagged on your 64, the Camaro, or your Caddy???? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"What you failed to realize is that a smaller engine is not always more economical. The '05 lighter Mustang with a V6 gets worse gas mileage than the '04 GTO with the V8. That's a fact that you ignored."

>>>>1) I would never compare a modern day GTO (when Pontiac gets around to making one) to a Mustang as you frequently do. They are not in the same class. A fact you frequently ignore.

" A car guy would drive their GTO, something you have admitted you have rarely done in recent history."

>>> When my 70 is ready to go it will be driven on a nearly daily basis, except in winter. I will not drive it until then. At 278,000 miles I do not want to put any more wear and tear on it until the "restoration" is done. The road salt here chews up older cars like candy. HoweverI will forward your comments to my neighbor though. I'm sure he'll be shocked to know he's not a car guy. He has a 1970 Hemi Challenger, ( featured in Car Craft in the late '80s ) a 1969 Hemi Charger that gets into the 12's on a regular basis and a 66 Barricuda. Is a member of the NHOA, was a consulting engineeer with Carrol Shelby on the original plans for the Viper. But given that he's "retired" his well worn Challenger because he wants to restore it and not let the elements around here chew it up I guess he's not a "car guy" like you.

You say the car needs a $40,000.00 makeover,
>>> Given estimates on this forum and others I've been told 20k...then double it.

"Fourth, you say you haven't "bagged" on my cars. Well, when you called my Caddy a Lincoln, I consider that an insult. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>"

>>> Not intentional, but I'll give you that one. Caddy Limo...Lincoln...whatever. Like I said before,the only web page I looked at of yours was the '64. I knew you had a Chevy and something that had an "L" in it. As far as your awards: From what I've seen of your '64 any award recieved was certainly well deserved. That doesn't make you any more of an expert or a "car guy" than the rest of us. Info. on production, etc. is easily found on Musclecarclub.com or any other number of websites.I know plenty of rich pricks who pay somebody 40-50k to restore a musclecar. Possession doesn't make them experts. I happen to be one of those rich pricks who will be throwing 40k or so at somebody to restore my Goat. When that happens, I will not be heralding myself as any more of a car guy or expert than the guy who takes pride in his clean '71 LeMans or whatever it may be.

Tripower455 · #16 12-08-2004, 12:23 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>I'm glad I could help you do so. Your point is that regardless if somebody has owned and still does own a GTO and they feel this is not one that makes them a troll. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Once again, the troll's reading comprehension falls short......

My point is that someone that registers a troll name for the sole sake of trolling, is a troll.

Clear enough for you?

You haven't made ONE good argument to support your "point", beyond the fact that you are bitter that the new GTO doesn't look like a GTO should look. A point that we AGREE on, btw.

I am narrow minded, yet I can see that the car has a lot more going for it than it's bland looks.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> Point taken. I am a troll. A proud one at that. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

At least you admit it. That's a step in the right direction!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> Now go on and make issue of changing user names, erroneous quote postings, etc. That seems to be the extent of your agenda. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Once again, you've either not read, or chosen to ignore the extensive retorts I, and others have made to you in attempt at meaningful discussion regarding the new GTO. Your "agenda" of slamming the looks of the GTO and leaping to conclusions not supported by facts are the reason for my "agenda" of calling you a troll.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>BTW: Tell me again, how the GM Monaro is a GTO? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've covered this base numerous times. I am not going to waste my time repeating all of the good attributes that make the new GTO a GTO.

You either are unable to or refuse to comprehend irrefutable fact.

Your understanding of the difference between fact and opinion is also lacking.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>In your book, if Dodge had slapped a Hemi Charger badge on a Mitsubishi with hemisperical heads I guess that would make it a Hemi Charger right? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If it lived up to the performance side of the original, I might. The new GTO does that, in spades.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> Given that GM owns the marketing rights to the name "Pontiac GTO" they can call whatever they have in their inventory a Pontiac GTO. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

True.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> Not for my money. I'll keep my 740i, my C5 and the old 70 until Beavis and LutzHead Inc. give us a real GTO. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As I said in response to the first of hundreds of your posts, DON'T BUY ONE!

BTW, if you are such a Pontiac enthusiast, why is it that your '70 GTO doesn't even run? I would think that a true GTO loyalist, as you claim to be, would at least make the effort to keep your only Pontiac in running condition, and not let it sit for years. I'll bet it looks good sitting in the yard though....

David Jones · #17 12-08-2004, 04:51 AM

You need to ask GM that, since they consider it from the same family. I don't remember saying parts are interchangeable between any of these pieces. I suppose you have parents. Probably can't change parts out with them either. One thing I've noticed on any threads you "contribute" to is that in your own mind you are never wrong. You like the last word. I made my case and I believe everybody but you realize the family history of this line of engines. Maybe you really don't. No matter. I now realize that any further talk makes me look as silly as you do. I don't want that. Your a funny guy.

Goat luver · #18 12-15-2004, 06:54 PM

Family member or direct to an individual..... what's the difference?
My point is if you dish it out you have to be prepared to take it and stop whining about it.

red70goat · #19 12-09-2004, 09:09 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by The Champ:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by whatza monaro??:
>>> Well, maybe you're enough of an idiot to continue to drive a 34 yr. old car that is need of restoring and continue to get more wear and tear on it. As for me, I'll retire it until I've got enough $ to bring it up to snuff. I guess being a "true Pontiac enthusiast" you would continue to drive it until it is ready for the boneyard rather than spend some serious dough to give it the attention it deserves. Smart. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Earlier you posted that it will take $40,000 to get this car "right". Well, if you've owned it all these years, why did _YOU_ let it deteriorate so badly?

A decent amount of maintenance would have kept it from being the wreck that you now have.

Evidently you're really not much of a car guy.

Your posting shows it...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Give it up champ. The car was driven daily for nearly 30 yrs in all kinds of weather, 20+ of those in Montana where it frequently dipped to -30. It has held up quite well given that is has no rust, no dents, interior is worn but has no tears, paint still has a shine to it but like most red finishes it has some fading and a few hairline cracks in the rubbber on the nose, vinyl top is fully intact but has faded and is peeling slightly in a couple of corners, weather stripping is intact but like most 34 yr. old weatherstripping it is in need of replacing, engine runs fine but is tired as most vehicles would be after 278,000 miles, it is missing 1 chrome trim ring and the radio still works! As far as the $40k: From what I've read that's about what it would cost to do a frame off resto with labor. I may not go to that full extent. We'll see once it starts getting torn apart.I suppose by car show standards it would be considered a wreck. By restoration standards it would be a solid platform to start a restoration project. If my other car was a GM Monaro you'd probably be hailing as some sort of hero for keeping an old Goat in such unmolested factory condition for that many years....But then again I really don't care what you think.

Goat luver · #20 12-10-2004, 06:43 PM

"Whatza GTO wrote" Uhhh, Ok. Nobody is saying it's wrong to set a scenario no matter how ridiculous or inapplicable. Make us another one Rab."

You haven't answered his first one sufficiently yet and you are already askinfg for more?... Typical actions for your profession :-)