Nothing's changed! - Page 17 - PY Online Forums

judge_jury_executioner_69 · #1 12-14-2004, 12:46 AM

a performance minded person looking to buy a GTO with a V6 in it ? are you serious ? is there such a thing as a "torquin" V6 ? yeah lets put a V6 in there and boost it. that sounds origional. every import and some domestics that want to be like imports are doing this. c'mon man maybe you should consider a import if you want a 6. lets add a 12" exhaust tip while were at it. then it will really look/sound like a GTO.

RandyW · #2 12-07-2004, 06:11 AM

It looks like everyone would have been happy if Pontiac had called this car a GT-37 Or LeMans GT or anything but GTO. While it does have GTO performance, maybe it would have been better to call it something else!?
As for Pontiac being saved by the GTO, that was never the reason for the car, the G6 will take care of that along with a lot of other good product like the V8 Grand Prix, etc...

David Jones · #3 12-11-2004, 12:51 PM

I'm seeing from sales figures that people seem to like the "dated" styling cues pretty well. Pontiac seems to be adding a few "dated" touches of their own to the 05 goat. I suspect that Ford also will change their Mustang over the model run. All mfg's update their designs during the life of a model. Ford just isn't going to have to do it to move the product. Pontiac is.

red70goat · #4 12-08-2004, 11:12 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Tripower455:
[QUOTE]Fair is fair, the man knows what a pontiac is and he feels this is not one.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fair is fair, he is a troll. (that's period.)

QUOTE]

You've proven my point. Thank you.

rabon008 · #5 12-05-2004, 08:19 PM

Tom McQueen quoted Rabon(leaving out that I was talking about both the '64 and the '04) "Name the body that was available to GM that you guys wanted. Then we can discuss whether or not that would have been a better choice. GM was NOT going to build a new body just for the GTO!!! It costs too much money."

Tom McQueen Wrote: Yep. So instead of having a long term plan to get there, they cheaped out and slapped GTO badges on an import. A nice car by all accounts. But not a GTO.

So, by that statement, since GM approached the '64 GTO and the '04 GTO the same way, you must believe the '64 is not a true GTO either. What year did GM get the original GTO right? Is there any year that the GTO is a true GTO? Is the only "true" GTO the body style that you like? I noticed that you didn't answer the question. Answer it now if you have the guts: What currently available platform was GM supposed to use for the new GTO? Remember, please, that the original (Pontiac) GTO was built on an EXISTING platform. Also keep in mind that if GM had to develop a "new" retro body style JUST for the GTO then we'd be paying $50K for that priviledge. Who would buy it then, as opposed to a Vette? Please answer this question if you dare: Which existing platform for $30K would have made you happy?
_______________________________________________

whatza monaro wrote: Gee, When I bought my C5 3 yrs ago I thought I was buying a real car. Thank you for informing me. I guess my well worn 70 Goat that I've had since high school ( 30 yrs ago ) isn't a real car either. I'm glad we have you people who bought a GM Monaro as a GTO to tell us what is real or not.

So, tell us. I am sure we are all waiting to hear. EXACTLY what makes your 70 GTO a 'real" GTO that prohibits the Monaro from being a real GTO? Also, do you agree with Tom that slapping a GTO badge on a Tempest in '64 meant that the first Pontiac label of GTO was also not "really" a "true" GTO? I'm sure Champ will be most disappointed that he has a conterfeit. Is '70 the only year that they made the "true" GTO? Give us answers. We are all waiting to be enlightened as to what a true GTO is and is not. Is gtoric's '67 really a true GTO? Is Goathead's '65 really a true GTO? Since Goathead also shares your views about the '04 GTO, I'm sure he will be interested to hear your most wise discourse regarding what classifies as a true GTO. Enlighten us!!!

Mr_GTO · #6 12-05-2004, 02:20 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Tom McQueen:

Yep. So instead of having a long term plan to get there, they cheaped out and slapped GTO badges on an import. A nice car by all accounts. But not a GTO. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think there was always a long term plan. Hell it is going to take 4 years to bring the Solstice together. It took 2 years to bring the GTO here and it will take from 2004 to 2007, 4 years, to bring the new GTO up to speed.

What doesn't make the new GTO a "GTO"? ANd don't say styling because the 64 was a box. Styling is subjective. other than that, please explain it.

judge_jury_executioner_69 · #7 12-07-2004, 01:58 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:

a "real" GTO was just that. a pontiac. the new GTO is a australlian car with a chevy engine and has a pontiac badge on it. yeah they havent made a real pontiac since 78/9 so why put not just any pontiac badge but a GTO. remember the GTO was the first muscle car. if i was worried about gas mileage i would have bought a import and put the big turbo(s) and all that on it to make up for the lack of cubes. why handle when youre going fast in a straight line ? thats the idea behind a drag race smart guy. what are you gonna do when/if they come out with the new chevelle and it looks like a 70ish ( like a chevelle should ) and has better numbers out of the box with the same engine as the "new" gto ? i bet thats what theyre doing now. or what about the 06 charger? why does GM have to cater to chevy? lets put a 350 in it. hows that for origionality? how many years have they done this now ? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Funny, which division is pushing the GTO again? Oh right, PONTIAC.

which American Made Pontiac would you want to wear the GTO badge?

Uh, cars wouldn't sell if they couldn't handle. This is 2004, not 1964. Cars today can do both and if you have never gone carting or road racing, it is 1000% more fun than drag racing.

How does Pontiac cater to Chevy? The LS1/LS2 engines are not Chevy's hate to tell you. But then again, educated people and people not in denial already know this. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. pontiac ? last time i checked they stopped making them (motors) in the late 70's.

2.what body would i put it in ? i bet it would have sold better in a aztec or montana.

3. if i wanted handleing i would look at something awd. such as a EVO VIII. all wheel turbo that will run low 13's/high 12's (depending if you talk to real owners or read magazines) and handle better then the new GTO. i can guarantee i wouldnt do any kind of road racing in my 69. but then again i didnt/wont plan on it.

rabon008 · #8 12-08-2004, 09:23 PM

Champ, Mr_GTO, someone do a quick search on Heff. I think he's whatza monaro.

Anyway, the point Nickv (I think) was making with his posting of the 1976 Monaro pic was that the 1976 (and for that matter the 68-76 Monaros) were built on the GM platform. Look at that 76 pic a little closer. As I suggested days ago, go to Holden's website and look at all the old Monaro's. Can't any of you '04 haters see what the Monaro was and is? Pontiac is in complete control of the direction that Monaro is going today and that is why the '04, '05 and all following will be real Pontiac GTO's. GM has dictated a lot to Holden and is even holding the true Monaro (a higher valued car) back. For example, the '05 Monaros get the LS1's while the '05 GTOs get the LS2. The Monaros are tailored toward BMW owners (with features like the Australian version of On-Star, an extra guage package above the radio, etc.) while the '05 GTO is tailored toward American muscle car purchasers. That's MUSCLE CAR purchasers, not stang purchasers but more like Cobra purchasers so when comparing numbers don't compare mustangs (including 6 cylinders and the weak a$$ V8) but rather compare sales of the '04 GTO to the '04 Cobra. When you do I think you'll find that Pontiac is quite happy with the numbers they have generated in their first year.

David Jones · #9 12-05-2004, 06:18 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>LOL, yea, because import cars had no part in that right? GM didn't exactly have to deal with that problem back in the 1960's. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Had GM made some cars in the 70's and 80's that were worth a hoot, the imports wouldn't have made such inroads and GM wouldn't have a reputation as building unreliable no resale value cars.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Do you have any idea what it takes to get a car from paper to showroom when you don't have a chasis, a plant to build it in, etc? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The imports swap chassis's about evry 4 or 5 model years. GM and Ford and Chrysler are still behind the curve on that. I'm sure you're well schooled on new model development as an internet super sleuth.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>it does have a long way to go though. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Agreed

red70goat · #10 12-09-2004, 04:17 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by disc0monkey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by David Jones:
Hey DiscO, I checked out your website and the pictures of your 71 model. Nice car! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

thanks, just excuse the exhaust on a lot of those pics, because that was b4 i did the motor <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

damn nice goat disc.

The Champ · #11 12-19-2004, 05:57 AM

As I posted before, would you want to drive that thing?

If not, it doesn't matter...

And you better check your pricing on this car - the EVO III base price is $31,274.00. Add the leather interior and the upgraded stereo (still no CD changer) and it balloons up to $34,394.00.

I don't know about you, but I don't want to drive a 4 cylinder whatzit and sound like I've got an overexcited squirrel under the hood....

The only reason this thing can do the 1/4 so fast is it has 4.53 gears and a turbo, which is why the GTO gets better gas mileage despite having all the creature comforts standard and having a V8.

So slowly back away from your fascination over the 4cyl, turbocharged, 4dr, winged, warriors, and let's talk V8 performance here...

red70goat · #12 12-15-2004, 08:03 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ozzy:
Family member or direct to an individual..... what's the difference?
My point is if you dish it out you have to be prepared to take it and stop whining about it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

True, I did the stir the pot and made some comments that were derogatory in nature that were probably better left unsaid. My purpose was to expose the generalities of out what happens when somebody is opposed to GMs attempt to revive the GTO. I made several posts that were not critical at all but were more based on opinion and observation. The majority reaction from those in favor of what GM is doing to didn't change regardless of the content of my post.

Nickv · #13 12-11-2004, 08:10 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
why did ford go retro with their 05 mustang ? at least from the front end it looks like a 60 something mustang. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because they ran out of styling ideas.

dstryr · #14 01-01-2005, 07:49 PM

Here in Colorado Springs, a local dealer wouldn't let a potential do anything but say 'ooh' and 'ah' about his 04 GTOs while they sat in the showroom with 4 miles on the odo. If you were "serious", you could sit in it and start the engine. Now, I wouldn't test drive one of the 12 sitting on his lot now if he offered me $50.

Goathead · #15 12-11-2004, 09:26 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> Because they ran out of styling ideas. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If that's so, why are they selling so well...?

PS: Are you saying the '04 has style of it's own? Get real....

NaOH · #16 12-13-2004, 05:28 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> You don't know sh*t. Get with the times. With todays technology you don't need a V-8 to crank out some serious hp. The V-8 along with the GM Monaro are going to be dinasaurs soon. BTW: GTOs are NOT Monaros. Period. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heh, I would love to have seen the hue and cry that would've been raised by traditionalists if they'd put forward anything with less than 8 cylinders as a GTO. A small, inexpensive, lightweight car with a supercharged V6 would've been a perfectly valid direction to go with a new GTO in my opinion... but I doubt many others would agree.
Having said that, I am satisfied with what we have.

Mr_GTO · #17 12-15-2004, 07:27 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:

A modern day GTO that is recognizable as a GTO, not a carbon copied jellybean. This can be easily accomplished without the use of the worn practice of using non-functional hood scoops and tacky spoilers. Performace wise, the GM Monaro is right on the money. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow, so now you know how cars are designed, certified and built uh? Why aren't you working for GM if it is so freaking easy?

Fact of the matter is you have ZERO clue about what it takes to get a car from paper to dealer. ZERO.

Look at how long it is taking the Solstice to get to dealers. 4 year process is the norm when working from a clean sheet of paper. GM with engineering input from Holden started on ZETA chasis last year, 2003. Know when the release of those cars is starting with the GTO?

2007.

disc0monkey · #18 12-06-2004, 09:56 PM

baby got back?[img]http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=ws6+2002/v=2/SID=e/l=IVI/SIG=11leu765p/*-http%3A//www.ws6transam.com/images/WS6/WS6Rear.jpg[/img]

rabon008 · #19 12-06-2004, 08:11 PM

Still haven't answer my question 24 hours later. What body in your infinite wisdom should Lutz have used. What you want would have put the car at $50K and then would that be keeping with GTO tradition? By not answering the question you are proving yourselves useless to any meaningful debate. Answer the question: What body, Pontiac, GM, Japanese, Australian or otherwise should GM have used? Answer the question. You can't because then your true GTO knowledge will be revealed as nil (oh wait a minute, Champ already showed that you know nothing about GTO's and might actually have purchased a Canadian inspired LeMans immitation of a 70 Goat). LOL on that one Champ.

Back to the point: Answer the question, whatza, goathead or any other '04 haters out there. WHAT BODY?

rabon008 · #20 12-06-2004, 09:39 PM

disc0monkey wrote: the GTO actually does not out perform the WS6.

You are so full of it. You are looking at published numbers. My stock '04 does 0-60 in 5 flat, not the 5.3 that is published and many others have turned 5.1x's. You will need to step up to the Firehawk to better that and then its not garanteed. And cornering wise the '04 will eat the WS6 alive. And you can have all the Fords you want...I'll shut them down too.