Nothing's changed! - Page 3 - PY Online Forums

David Jones · #1 12-06-2004, 05:25 AM

LS1/LS2 not Chevys? Who designed the basic architecture? In their current form, who used them 1st? GM has lost its way and is trying to convince the world that it can still engineer with the best automotive mfg's. Corporate engine? Bull. Consumers can see through the smoke screen and have made that clear with their pocketbooks. Sadly Toyota is soon to become the top automaker because of decisions like the one that created the "new" GTO. GM is capable of better.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>But then again, educated people and people not in denial already know this. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since you fit in neither category why should anybody believe you?

red70goat · #2 12-05-2004, 06:37 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Randy W:
... your hang up about "Monaros"... I'm sure in person, you would hide behind mommie!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uhhh, whatever. I'm not hung up about Monaros. I'm sure they are a fine car. I just don't like the half assed attempt GM has done as lableing them as a GTO or the people that support that as a good idea. And why are you so hung up on my mama?...Go hide behind yo' mama.

gtohurstjudge · #3 12-08-2004, 07:40 AM

Mr. Whatza Monaro.... You will hear from me
no more on this forum because this whole bashing
of the new GTO has gotten way beyond the point of ridiculous, but I will make the following observations. The newest Pontiac you have ever owned is a 1970 model. The 70 GTO that you do own is a beater that you will get around to restoring someday. In case you haven't heard,
Pontiac has been making cars for 35 years since
your GTO was built.Other than some beater GTO's
that you have owned, you are into Chevelles,
Corvettes and BMWs. My advice to you would be
as follows....Trade your beater BMW on a brand new one...Go join a club
that caters to plastic fantastics.... and most important of all, consider
spending your Pontiac related time restoring your GTO rather than spending
all of your time bashing the new GTO on this forum. You are NOT a Pontiac
enthusiast and never will be. Given that fact, it is hardly shocking that
you don't like the new GTO, and when I read your future Pontiac related
opinions I will be taking them with the microscopic grain of salt that they
deserve.

red70goat · #4 12-10-2004, 07:02 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ozzy:
"Whatza GTO wrote" Uhhh, Ok. Nobody is saying it's wrong to set a scenario no matter how ridiculous or inapplicable. Make us another one Rab."

You haven't answered his first one sufficiently yet and you are already askinfg for more?... Typical actions for your profession :-) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Answer what? If there had been a 30 year gap between the original GTO and my 70 would anybody have recognized it as a GTO? Hell yes! Because it still had a unique enough grill and aggressive stance to set it apart from the rest of the Pontiac fleet, unlike the 74 which was just a rebadged Ventura. History repeats itself in 2004 with a Holden Monaro badged as a GTO that looks like a Grand Am /Gand Prix / Bonneville.

red70goat · #5 12-07-2004, 06:46 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Goathead:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Danny, Is that Firebird yours? Any pics? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't know what that bump is on the hood, but the '04's seem to fear it. And yes, it is a street legal car when the rear tires get changed to the M/T Streets.......

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

suuuuhhhhweeeet!!

red70goat · #6 12-07-2004, 07:49 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by whatza monaro??:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by whatza monaro??:

I don't know about "everything the original was" because there is nothing from the original on the GM Monaro. And yes, it is certinly better than something that was manufactured 30-40 yrs. ago. Huge accomplishment in the land of Beavis and Lutzhead. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmm, what part of the Corvette or the Mustang came on the original that is still being used now? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

uhhh, parts??? Where did that come from? No mistaking the 'Vette or 'Stang for another car. And where in my post did I say anything about original "parts"????? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I asked you what was orginal on the Mustang or Corvette that was orginal in 1953 or 1964? Please let me know. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

read your original post. you said nothing about 1953 or 1964. nice try.

Goathead · #7 12-19-2004, 09:30 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> It ain't plain, it's plain ugly!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But all thru this and other threads, the '04 buyers say that looks is subjective, and should not be consiederd...

Nickv · #8 12-14-2004, 12:35 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Nickv:

I wonder if Aussie's bitched when the new Monaro did not look like the old Monaro?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who cares what the Aussies think? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you missed the whole point of my post.

judge_jury_executioner_69 · #9 12-10-2004, 06:21 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Nickv:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by disc0monkey:
the bottom line is GM should have made the '04 model like the '05 from the start. Most would be a little dissappointed from not having a fresh design, but its a bit more retro than the '04 with the scoops etc. and the harmony of the wide dual exhuast would make you forget really quick that its a monaro and everyone would've been happy and thats it. Does anyone agree with this? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i agree 100 %. but it makes me mad that GM halfa**ed it. there is no styling. the 05 mustang looks somewhat like a 60 something mustang. the 06 charger will have a baby hemi. if chevy comes out with a new chevele it will prolly be faster then the GTO just so the chevy guys can talk sh**. i dont agree with the gto badge. its a australlian car, chevy motor (since pontiac stopped making their own engines and put chevy engines in them it wont be a real pontiac but then again pontiac wont make their own engines again ), with a GTO badge. the 04 is running mid 13's (that slower then some imports). how does gm put that out and expect people to love the car. if it had a diffrent badge or can run mid 12's out of the box then that would be fine. but no way should gm put out something (especially a GTO that was the first muscle car) and have it lose to a import 4 banger car. thats not love. thats embarassment. now theyre playing catch up with the 05 and sounds liek theyre doing a better job this time. they can do better. especially for $35,000 give or take a few. thats why i like my 69 pontiac enen tho its old it IS a pontiac. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know to many 4 banger imports that run are gonna beat the 05 GTO. C&D with their lousy drivers turn a 13.3@107. I have info from a source that ran an 05 to 12.9@108. I myself have taking my BONE STOCK 350HP overweight 04 GTO to a 13.3@104. There are a few 04 GTO cars that have done a 13.1 1/4 mile time FACTORY STOCK. Holden took their 400HP LS2 4 door car which is heavier than the already heavy 05 GTO and ran a 13.0@109 with it.

The new GTO lives up to it's legend. In 07 with the GTO being built here in the states and the possibility even a larger engine (inside info)

, Much if not all the GTO bashing will disappear. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

why didnt they do this with the 04? now that it can beat the imports what about the cobras and the 06 charger? is this 12.9 consistant? or did they just get lucky? anyone know what the 05 will sticker for ?

red70goat · #10 12-19-2004, 05:59 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Randy W:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by racerboy:
Mitsubishi EVO III <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It ain't plain, it's plain ugly!!!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The fact some of these imports are butt ugly might explain the GM Monaros popularity with the tuner crowd. The GM Monaro is a logical alternative to the bat winged ricer. My 17 yr. old son said the 04 is the car of choice in his high school for kids who want something to "pimp out". Same side exhaust, jelly bean front end, spoiler, ricer back end and tail light treatments: The tuner crowd was definately the market Lutz was going for. Maybe he should have checked to see what their disposable income was first. The 05 is a progression of that same theme. I mentioned on another forum almost a year ago that the 05 would be offered with a higher spoiler, etc in GMs continuing attempt to cater to the tuner crowd and that is just what has happened. Of course I got blasted with "back your opinion up with fact troll, blah, blah, blah".

I wouldn't be surprised if the geniuses at Beavis and LutzHead started offering window graphics and the optional fart can exhaust in the near future. Credit given though to GM in the change of the dual exhaust treatment. ( I know, I know, the GM Monaro has always had true duals...you know what I mean

)and some bitchin' new "grown up" colors. The 2005 Cyclone Grey comes to mind. I doubt that would have happened though if there had not been an overwhelming demand for it. GM is catering to these demands out of need not choice.

Trace · #11 12-12-2004, 10:55 PM

Rabon: Roll your eyes all you want Danny but NO ONE has given me sales numbers of any car in the same class as the GTO that are better. Give me numbers and source. Many people want a Taurus, a 6 cylinder stang, or a weaka$$ V8 stang, show me the numbers on something that matches the GTO in performance and price!

3 days ago I drove an '05 Mustang GT at my local dealer. They're in really short supply in my area of CA. & this was the first one they would let anyone test drive (it pays to know the owner). It's a hell of an improvement over my neighbor's '03 Mach I, but there's still that weak-tit 3 valver under the hood. The snap of thrust I feel with my '04 GTO just isn't there off the bottom. Mind you it's a fine engine & certainly makes nice power, but there's also a kind of unattractive dry whine from the engine as it comes up in rpm - may lessen with mileage, I don't know. One thing they <have> improved immensely is the steering feel - wow, it's light-years beyond any previous Mustang platform with excellent weighting & on-center feel. Now if they'll just rid it of that wagon axle rearend it might be a serious contender. By the way, $30k was his asking price for it & he wasn't budgin'! That's more than my GTO with a significantly better chassis & mill! No contest!

disc0monkey · #12 12-09-2004, 04:01 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by David Jones:
Hey DiscO, I checked out your website and the pictures of your 71 model. Nice car! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

thanks, just excuse the exhaust on a lot of those pics, because that was b4 i did the motor

NaOH · #13 12-21-2004, 09:05 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:
what happened to "theres no replacement for displacement" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Forced induction.

Mr_GTO · #14 12-07-2004, 03:21 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by whatza monaro??:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by whatza monaro??:

I don't know about "everything the original was" because there is nothing from the original on the GM Monaro. And yes, it is certinly better than something that was manufactured 30-40 yrs. ago. Huge accomplishment in the land of Beavis and Lutzhead. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmm, what part of the Corvette or the Mustang came on the original that is still being used now? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

uhhh, parts??? Where did that come from? No mistaking the 'Vette or 'Stang for another car. And where in my post did I say anything about original "parts"????? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I asked you what was orginal on the Mustang or Corvette that was orginal in 1953 or 1964? Please let me know.

red70goat · #15 12-05-2004, 09:05 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Rabon:

Remember, please, that the original (Pontiac) GTO was built on an EXISTING platform. !!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You answered your own question. Now what EXISTING PONTIAC platform did GM use for the 04 again? Given that GM owns the Pontiac GTO name (and please don't bore us with the origination.We all know GM ripped it off from Ferrari 40 yrs ago)they can tag any car in their fleet and rightfully call it a Pontiac GTO. Most consumers apparently disagree. I suppose if Dodge slaps a Hemi Charger badge on a Mitsubishi with hemispherical heads then that makes it a Hemi Charger, Right?

David Jones · #16 12-05-2004, 02:38 PM

ALL cars in 64,except the Corvette, were boxes. Yes styling is subjective. And it would seem that subjectively the popular opinion is that GM missed it. If it really takes GM 4 years to get a car right, then they have a big problem. No wonder their market share has dropped like a rock over the last few decades.

red70goat · #17 12-09-2004, 12:19 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by whatza monaro??:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Tripower455:

I never mentioned your Beemer. Ever. In any context. I made comment that your apparent lack of enthusiasm for your '70 (hasn't been started in years) called into question your claimed status as a GTO fanatic......
Oh, and $40k will be a good starting number for a frame off on the '70, depending on how much you do yourself, and how many of the original parts you can use and how far you go with it.

It is worth it in the end, but I estimated about $20K when I started my '66, and I am rapidly approaching $40k and I did a lot of the grunt work myself. Those $200 boxes from PY add up quickly.... At least it was spread out over a bunch of years.

It seems we have more in common than not....... btw. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps the Beemer / Chevelle comment was from Radon or Mr_GTO. My apologies if it was. As far as the cost to do a resto: I was told as you have indicated: about 20K then double it. This was my whole point for the contention on this board: There are people here who think you've got no right to criticize the New GTO unless you're some sort of a collector, have an award winning vintage goat, etc. When I logged on a year ago I was hit with an onslaught of insults, allegations, etc from all the hallowed "experts". Given I make my living arguing with people ( atty )then I jumped into the fray. I actually logged on to see web pages on other GTO's that had been restored. (Champs, Dannys, yours) I'm using some of these as a guide to restore my 70, particularly Dannys. I keep waiting to see a 70 pop up. Personally, I get more out of reading posts from those that don't have an "award winning" Goat such as Heff or Disco but are passionate about their rides. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

PS: I forgot DJs! My nephew has a '68 that I am trying to keep him from butchering. I told him to look at DJs as a prime example of what a clean/bad ass 68-69 should look like.

disc0monkey · #18 12-06-2004, 10:19 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Rabon:
disc0monkey wrote: You people are so very stupid, same motor, slightly different cam, and the gto is much heavier.

Um...25 more hp and 25 more ft-lbs torque...but yes...I will give you 150 pounds or so of weight. I haven't been to a "legal" track but I park my GTO beside a 2001 SS every day and have driven the SS many, many times...It doesn't even compare.

PS. I once used that SS to stomp a WS6 so don't say the SS was weak or some crap. The SS is very strong...it just isn't any comparison to my '04 Goat. I think ozzy has owned both the WS6 and the '04 Goat and he seems to agree. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

those hp rating are BS are you kidding me...thats the most old school pontiac thing in the book. they under-rated the F-bodies, everone knows that. the SS and ws6 is the same car...

Mr_GTO · #19 12-07-2004, 06:38 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by David Jones:
So mr_gto, the ls2-ls2 is based on what engine?
What engine do these variants of the same engine share their bore spacing with?
Your saying the ls1-ls2 are brand new designs? Fill me in on its ancestors. I'm sure you know. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ls2 is based off the LS1 family of engines. Wow, you are going to compare the old style Chevy small block to the GM Vortec family based on bore spacing alone? LOL

I guess you still couldn't find a site on GM's website where it said "CHEVROLET V8" uh? LOL

Troll, you couldn't remember what it was but yet you could remember to tell someone somewhere on this board in some thread, hmmmm...good story. Grow some gonads and go over to LS2.com and we'll have some real debates. So what was your username again?

RandyW · #20 12-05-2004, 06:58 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by whatza monaro??:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Snowbound:
Funny, this guy hasn't posted on any other part of the board. Under this user name anyways...

QUOTE]
..can you read?... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Does your mommie know you're playing with the big boys again? While we're out driving our real cars you're home with mommie dearist....