[J Brady]

I have one out of the Dale Sharp car. Are you interested?

[J Brady]

only kidding!

[tom s]

you putz,you KNOW I have a power shift trans!Tom

[CH3NO2 Pontiac]

Absolutely, Jim.

Send photos and price to:

[email protected]

Thank you.

[CH3NO2 Pontiac]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tom s:
you putz,you KNOW I have a power shift trans!Tom </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes, but yours is being used to build another fake.

You see, I need another one in order to restore the one found by a friend at Daimler in Germany.....

[CH3NO2 Pontiac]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tom Vaught:
Give us some hints on where that wisdom Need to get off your butt, Scott, and do some homework vs wasting your time stirring up stuff on the PY board. Tom V. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

See, Pops, here's the thing:

Before I started "stirring sh!t" as you call it, you probably thought ol' Gartzman was a solid citizen of the Pontiac hobby. Now, you know better.

Funny thing is that most of the "Old Patrol" and the Inner Circle-Jerks knew about that fake LONG before I did, yet they stood idly by, doing and saying nothing.

Why?

"Follow the Money" -- Deep Throat

[Tom Vaught]

Quote: "See, Pops, here's the thing:

Before I started "stirring sh!t" as you call it, you probably thought ol' Gartzman was a solid citizen of the Pontiac hobby. Now, you know better."

Well, Sonny, having never met the man I can't say that I could judge how solid of a citizen he is. Kind of like a "boob job" I can't really say if it is real or false until I personally
check out the merchandise. I might have my suspicions but without a first hand inspection it
is still only a theory. Gartzman's car was "Unique" maybe too unique. One day it just showed up. Not to say that there aren't other ones out there. Jim Brady's Ram Air Firebird comes to mind. Jim Mattison says no Ram Air Birds (68 I think) built in Kansas but Jim owned one. The
paperwork is not always where most people look. You need to look elsewhere vs saying it never happened like Jim Mattison did, (until he did more research) LOL!"

Quote:

"Funny thing is that most of the "Old Patrol" and the Inner Circle-Jerks knew about that fake LONG before I did, yet they stood idly by, doing and saying nothing. Why? "Follow the Money"

So what exactly are you saying? There is a conspiracy by the "Old Patrol" to build fake cars
for the unsuspecting naive Japanese/ off shore collector who has more brains than money?

Sonny, you need to quit watching Mel Gibson movies while you are at home alone! LOL!

Glad you are making money with your business, Sonny, You sell fake plastic wood that looks
like real wood. It might be better looking, more durable, etc but it is still fake. Tom S.
builds a "fake" 63 Tempest SD transaxle car. I guarantee it will be nicer than any original
63 Tenpest SD car but it will still be a "fake" So who is the worst sinner? Neither person
in my mind, you are doing it for the money and so is he.

Tom V.

[tom s]

my fake wagon will have a alu 366 ci pontiac engine?It will have a bench seat?It will be started from the front?It wont have a notched fuel tank?It wont have alu body parts?As far as I can see it will be just a 63 Tempest wagon with a couple RARE parts in it?Your STILL a putz and proving it MORE with every post you make!Your pal,Tom

[CH3NO2 Pontiac]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tom Vaught:
So who is the worst sinner? Neither person
in my mind, you are doing it for the money and so is he. Tom V. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tom is.

Because he won't adopt me.

One other thing about the "Inner Circle-Jerks" :

Ask Mr. Brady someday about how one of the Inner Circle-Jerks tried to snipe his Ram Air Firebird out from underneath him.



Actually, Pops, Gartzman's GP WAS the real deal.......at least the A pillar and VIN tag were, that is.

[tom s]

OH,and it will have power steering,heater and power brakes just like all the other SD wagons!NOT!Tom

[CH3NO2 Pontiac]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tom Vaught:

So what exactly are you saying? There is a conspiracy by the "Old Patrol" to build fake cars for the unsuspecting naive Japanese/ off shore collector who has more brains than money?Tom V. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How about "for ANY unsuspecting buyer?"

[Tom Vaught]

Quote:

"How about "for ANY unsuspecting buyer?"

Quote:

"Ask Mr. Brady someday about how one of the Inner Circle-Jerks tried to snipe his Ram Air Firebird out from underneath him."

Deal is Sonny, I already know the whole story very well. If Jim had not had a few Kansas friends in the right place in the Kansas Motor Vehicle system it might have actually happened.

So this guy was "Sniping a Vehicle" or trying too. My memory isn't too good but I thought I remembered a little transaction on E-Bay were you wanted me to help you do the same thing?

Quote"

"Actually, Pops, Gartzman's GP WAS the real deal.......at least the A pillar and VIN tag were, that is."

No kidding! I was not aware of that part of the story. So how did you come up with that bit of info? Was Gartzman talking/ bragging too much? The deal is, Sonny, if the vin itself was still intact and not removed from the A Piller where do you draw the line on changing sheetmetal? I don't know. Is it the frame, the rear quarters, the fenders, the hood, the tail light panel?
You got me.

Quote:

"How about "for ANY unsuspecting buyer?"

I agree, BUT, anyone who has the resources to buy a SD Grand Prix, a 63 SD
Tempest Wagon, or a Swiss Cheeze Catalina will hire hopefully a knowledgeable
"Vehicle Technical Expert" who will go over the car and the documentation and
give his client a qualified recommendation on whether to purchase the vehicle or not. If the Expert doesn't meet the qualifications for the task then he is responsible.

This will be based on FACTS not internet posts.

JMO

Tom V.

[CH3NO2 Pontiac]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tom Vaught:
Deal is Sonny, I already know the whole story very well. If Jim had not had a few Kansas friends in the right place in the Kansas Motor Vehicle system it might have actually happened.

So this guy was "Sniping a Vehicle" or trying too. My memory isn't too good but I thought I remembered a little transaction on E-Bay were you wanted me to help you do the same thing?

Tom V. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If he so chooses, we'll let Mr. Brady tell the story that shows the "Inner Circle" member in a less-than-favorable light.

Point is, when Pontiac Motor Division gave it's OK to use it's records, it is my understanding that they were NOT to be used to profiteer off of those who sumitted requests for documentation.

I was told this by another "Inner Circle" member.



What I wanted you to do with eBay was to use MY account and MY password to snipe an auction, as I was going to be away at the time the auction ended. Not the same thing. With the advent of http://www.esnipe.com, that has become unnecessary.

Actually, another PY member did the same favor to me, and the '62 Catalina sedan that he sniped for me ended up being a real SD car!

[CH3NO2 Pontiac]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pops Vaught:

No kidding!

So how did you come up with that bit of info?

Was Gartzman talking/ bragging too much?

The deal is, Sonny, if the vin itself was still intact and not removed from the A Piller where do you draw the line on changing sheetmetal?

Tom V. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope. No kidding.

By keeping my ears open.

Hmmmmm....not to ME, anyway.

Where do I draw the line? Gee, let's see here....if somebody chops out the A pillar, with the VIN tag attached, and then welds it back into a rust free recipient car, I'd say that person just "pole vaulted" over the line, and didn't merely "cross" it.

I'll bet that when folks figure out how to detact and reattach (via spotwelding) stainless VIN tags to sheetmetal, they won't even need to chop out A pillars anymore.



I'm sure it's already been done....

[Tom Vaught]

Well, like I said I knew nothing about sniping on E-bay.

As far as the rest of this deal, I am done.

Nothing was resolved to my satisfaction. SOS!

I am going to be away from the computer for a few days so you guys have fun with this one.

Tom V.

[CH3NO2 Pontiac]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tom Vaught:

Nothing was resolved to my satisfaction. SOS!

Tom V. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Mine either. SOS. Why am I not surprised?

[Tom Vaught]

Being an old Fart that I am, I know a few people too and plan on investigating this further.

So Sonny, give me the exact dates in 1964 and 1965 where this Hippo guy was supposed to have
acquired the car?

Also did he have a title for the car as you said there was one.

What was the deal with the car going down south during this time?

Thanks.

Tom V.

[CH3NO2 Pontiac]

Hippo was the first owner. Early '63, from what I'm told. Hippo would have to verify that for you. Mr. Keefe has spoken with him, so I'd start with Don.

Some other old codger told me that Bill Blair bought the car in '64, after it was smashed and repossessed, then fixed, painted, got a motor installed, then offered for sale through GMAC by Union Park. Supposedly, it was he who went clear up to Wilmington, DE from Arkansas/Alabama to get the car. Obviously, this can't be confirmed by Harold Ramsey.

Again, Joe DeNick might know.

Of course, so would the folks at Union Park.

Ask Schlocky.

[Don Keefe]

Scott- Exactly when do your sources place the wagon at the Passyunk Ave. salvage yard?

I've said it to you before and I'll say it again, my research doesn't support your theory that the Union Park Wagon was ever there. My research suggessts that it was another white '63 Tempest wagon.

Please clarify this point for me.

[CH3NO2 Pontiac]

Don:

I'll ask him.

When, exactly, did Joe DeNick say that his car get repossessed?

What happened to it after it got repossesed?

Why does your research indicate that the car on Passyunk Avenue was a different car?

Did he mention pulling the motor out before it got repossessed?

Please clarify these points for me.

Still looking for that Powershift unit for an SD Tempest in Germany.