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jjs · 06-01-2001, 03:23 PM

The WC t5 tramission from a newer firebird and camaro is rotated 17 degrees off center to position the shifter upright. Would drilling and taping new mounting holes 17 degrees on a pontiac bellhousing solve the problem of mounting this transmission in a 69 firebird? Would the rest of the cluch linkage line up and operate? Any comments appreciated.
JJS

jjs · 06-01-2001, 03:23 PM

The WC t5 tramission from a newer firebird and camaro is rotated 17 degrees off center to position the shifter upright. Would drilling and taping new mounting holes 17 degrees on a pontiac bellhousing solve the problem of mounting this transmission in a 69 firebird? Would the rest of the cluch linkage line up and operate? Any comments appreciated.
JJS

Will · 06-01-2001, 07:01 PM

NOTE- The most important part of this post is at the end...

The T5 tranny came in many incarnations through the years in lots of different vehicles. Your best bet to get it to fit would be to swap on the tailshaft housing from an S-10 truck. The S-10 truck tailhousing is oriented straight up & down like a traditional 4-speed trans and it also moves the shifter further forward, close to where an original 4-speed for that year car would have had the shifter. If you notice, the F-body trans has the shifter mounted wayyy back on the tranny, much further back than it would have been on any '69 tranny.

If you change out the tailhousing, then you can use factory Pontiac bellhousing & linkage, everything will bolt up.

Now for the important part: If you install that T5, it won't last 6 months behind a Pontiac v8. It probably wouldn't last past the first clutch dump. There is a reason the factory only used them behind low output 305s, and now they're only found in the v6 models. Heck, they didn't even use them in the S-10s behind the 4.3 Vortech V6s. They are weak, period. You WILL grenade it, and there's not much you can do about it. The strongest models (only available for Fords) are rated at 305 ft/lbs of torque. Any healthy Pontiac V8 should make 300 ft/lbs.

Sorry, but your best bet in an overdrive 5-speed would be the Tremec TKO. Not only is it available as a direct 4-speed replacement, but it's torque capacity is somewhere near 500 ft/lbs... Unfortunately, you get to pay for the extra strength.

-Will

Ken K · 06-01-2001, 10:02 PM

Yep a T5 will be toast in no time behind a Pontiac V8. What I wonder is why nobody ever uses the 5spd Gertag trans from a GM truck, they are used behind a 4.3 S10 and a 350 full size truck, I have one in full size truck and tow with it all the time and I have had zero problems.

jjs · 06-03-2001, 08:34 PM

Will
Thanks for the great info, I am going to look into the cost. Your warning about this being a weak transmission is one I have heard many times before. Every body makes it sound like like these trans are made out of china. The world class t5 trans are behind 350s that guys are beating the hell out of on the street. I do not hear of many failures myself. I see many guys at the brackets in firebirds and camaros with slicks and not many failures. I AM NOT GOING TO RACE THIS CAR, BUT WOULD LIKE THE OVERDRIVE FIFTH GEAR. I FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE THAT DAILY DRIVING AND AN OCCASIONAL ROLLING BLAST WILL DESTROY THIS TRANSMISSION. I don't know what the torque rating on the muncie was, but they were behind some pretty hefty bb chevys. My point is that as a driver this trans should be serviceable. Ken where can I find out more info about 5 speed gertag? I like to know what year trucks the came in and what was the gear ratios? Someone mentioned the Tremec TKO, this trans costs at least $2000 and has a about a 50% gear drop in 1st to 2nd. I need
something less expensive
Thanks
JJS

Poncho64 · 06-04-2001, 03:02 PM

I can tell you from experience, if you baby it it will last but the first and I mean the first full throttle blast and that will be the end of the fun!!! PERIOD! Unless you buy one beefed up from Fortes, they are designed to take it and they are much more cost effective than the richmonds!

Will · 06-04-2001, 07:24 PM

Well, sounds like your mind's made up then. What the heck, give it a try. I wish you luck, hate to see people put good effort into something only to get bad results. Maybe I'm misinformed, but I'd sure think a tranny rated for 305 ft/lbs of torque would not live a very long life behind a Pontiac that can easily make 100 lbs. more than that...

Cheers,
-Will

jjs · 06-05-2001, 04:34 PM

Ken K
Ken where can I find out more info about 5 speed gertag? I like to know what year trucks
the came in and what was the gear ratios?
Thanks JJS

Ken K · 06-05-2001, 04:44 PM

JJS, you can scratch the idea of using the Gertag transmission. I climbed under my truck and discovered the bellhousing is cast into the transmission. Since it has Chevy engine the starter is on the wrong side for a Pontiac engine.

Ken K · 06-05-2001, 04:49 PM

There is another option you can use but I don't think it's the best. The Pontiac bellhousing is drilled for a Ford Transmission also, Ford used a overdrive 4 speed toploader transmission in the late 70s but I don't think it's as sturdy as the regular 4 speed toploader.

jjs · 06-05-2001, 04:51 PM

Ken K
Thanks for looking. If you here of anything new let me know.
JJS

TinInjun · 06-05-2001, 06:27 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by jjs:
I FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE THAT DAILY DRIVING AND AN OCCASIONAL ROLLING BLAST WILL DESTROY THIS TRANSMISSION.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Believe it. There is a very good reason GM never installed this trans behind any 350 powered Firebird's or Camaro's. They knew they would be having warrenty claims up to their ears. I have seen the T5 come apart, it isn't pretty. It was shear luck that the driver did not get hurt.

------------------
"Run wild with an Indian, not with the crowd in a Chevy"

Check out my restoration at http://members.aol.com/jetmech15/gto

455HOGT37 · 06-20-2001, 04:21 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Will:
NOTE- The most important part of this post is at the end...

The T5 tranny came in many incarnations through the years in lots of different vehicles. Your best bet to get it to fit would be to swap on the tailshaft housing from an S-10 truck. The S-10 truck tailhousing is oriented straight up & down like a traditional 4-speed trans and it also moves the shifter further forward, close to where an original 4-speed for that year car would have had the shifter. If you notice, the F-body trans has the shifter mounted wayyy back on the tranny, much further back than it would have been on any '69 tranny.

If you change out the tailhousing, then you can use factory Pontiac bellhousing & linkage, everything will bolt up.

Now for the important part: If you install that T5, it won't last 6 months behind a Pontiac v8. It probably wouldn't last past the first clutch dump. There is a reason the factory only used them behind low output 305s, and now they're only found in the v6 models. Heck, they didn't even use them in the S-10s behind the 4.3 Vortech V6s. They are weak, period. You WILL grenade it, and there's not much you can do about it. The strongest models (only available for Fords) are rated at 305 ft/lbs of torque. Any healthy Pontiac V8 should make 300 ft/lbs.

Sorry, but your best bet in an overdrive 5-speed would be the Tremec TKO. Not only is it available as a direct 4-speed replacement, but it's torque capacity is somewhere near 500 ft/lbs... Unfortunately, you get to pay for the extra strength.

-Will<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have been told by a Ford fanatic that the export S-15 pickups are equiped with the Tremec trans. Mexican junkyards are full of them. Can anybody verify this? Also- how in the hell do you cut and paste only part of a quote? I did not mean to reprint all of the above.

Ken K · 06-20-2001, 05:15 PM

If the Mexican junk yards are full of them then I can get one and for cheap. What Tremac are you talking about and how strong is it?

Will · 06-20-2001, 08:33 PM

I seriously doubt it's the TKO. Tremec makes a few different trannies. In fact, they bought the production rights to the T5 from Borg Warner and any replacement T5 parts you buy now come from Tremec.

Why on Earth would an S-15 pickup need a tranny rated at 500 ft/lbs?

-Will

'ol Pinion head · 06-20-2001, 08:50 PM

Will,
You have been studying the Tremec. Can you post the link to Forte's? that lists the tough Tremec TKO. I have been trying to figure out the different ratios available for the tough Tremec's not the old POS T5's.

My buddies '97 Cobra has what I assume is a Tremec TKO, it's ratio's are:

3.38 1st gear,
1.99 2nd,
1.33 3rd,
1.00 4th,
.67 OD

I would like to find what came stock with not as low a 1st gear & the Tremec TKO?

Thanks!!

JC455 · 06-20-2001, 09:28 PM

try www.fortesparts.com
also www.darkhorseperformance.com

------------------
John

[This message has been edited by JC455 (edited 06-20-2001).]

[This message has been edited by JC455 (edited 06-20-2001).]

'ol Pinion head · 06-20-2001, 11:09 PM

Thanks JC !!!

455HOGT37 · 06-21-2001, 12:43 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Ken K:
If the Mexican junk yards are full of them then I can get one and for cheap. What Tremac are you talking about and how strong is it? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This friend is from Texas and he knows a guy who runs across the border junkyard hunting all the time. A few years ago he had a whole truckload of them. I do not know what model but they were an upgrade from the T-5. As soon as I know more, I will post.

Will · 06-21-2001, 06:16 PM

I think the 4.3L V6 S-series trucks got either a Tremec (model #?) or a New Venture 5-speed, not the regular T5. Be interesting to see what your friend knows about this.

OPH, the TKO is currently offered with a pretty low first gear and two different overdrive ratios. I was thinking that getting the .84:1 overdrive when combined with the steep 1st gear would make this a very attractive tranny for installing in cars with 3.23 - 3.73 rear gears.

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