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ponchobob · 07-19-2005, 10:01 PM

Dove head first into a job, Am making progress, But am still a bit over my head on working the problem's on a commercially pure Titanium welding repair job. Am reasonably confident I can certify on the test coupons in the next few day's, just could use any info on fixtures/flood boxes for the argon-Ar/helium gas shielding jigs for field work. -I know, long shot here, but getting NOWHERE on the rest of the internet. (either not in the discussion club,-AWS-ect., or too esoteric/ areospace and beond to be any help.-Bob.

jdw_poncho · 07-19-2005, 10:46 PM

Good luck!LOL Thats top secret information. I know of somebody that has some expierence in this. Since I havent been involved directly with he testing sequences I can only ask is there a more detailed question I could pass on. This guy is certified as a teacher,I think?
What do you want to know about the fixtures, how they are built, how they are used?
I believe its important to find as much info as you can on shielding fixtures, but I guess you already know that. Have you spent much time welding Ti yet?
Read up on the terminology if your in doubt about any of it.
Jeff

jdw_poncho · 07-19-2005, 10:49 PM

BTW, what type bonding? TIG?

JSAauto · 07-20-2005, 01:19 AM

Hope I'm not too late with this, but you can call my buddy at West Coast Cylinder Heads in Reseda California. He's friends with a "metal joining expert" at Rocketdyne (built the Space Shuttle Engines). I still have friends of my dads that still work there, and I can ask them if they know someone in production that can help you.

WCCH (818) 705-5454. Tell Rich, John Stevenson Automotive thought you could help him. If not, contact me at the shop and I'll try my sources (818) 772-1737

Half-Inch Stud · 07-20-2005, 04:43 AM

Er ah,

Welding Forged or Cast Titanium, and alloys of Ti:

100Watt carbon dioxide laser directed through a windowed conainer backfilled wih Argon. Piece to be welded is best chucked into a lathe on an x-y table. Dry-run the piece movement before running the laser.

In plain words: weld in an argon atmosphere. HIS

Half-Inch Stud · 07-20-2005, 04:54 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Rocketdyne (built the Space Shuttle Engines) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah, the SSME, based off the Rocketdyne F-1 Apollo engine. Waxes me something aweful to know we import our best rocket engines, the RD-180 from Russia. Make vs Buy took a sore turn recently.

http://www.vectorsite.net/tarokt1.html#m4

HIS

Tiger Paw · 07-20-2005, 05:38 AM

Bob, there is a guy in our area by the name of Chris Razor. He is the absolute best welder I know of. He does a lot of exotic welding and is called upon nationwide to do so. He does much of the special welding for the car companies and Roush as well. I am not sure how much Ti he has done but I am sure Chris could be a valuable resource regardless.

Mike Clarahan (Tiger Paw)
Cell# 248-514-3325

fiedlerh · 07-20-2005, 01:33 PM

For the basics check out http://www.millerwelds.com and do a search for titanium

Half-Inch Stud · 07-20-2005, 02:25 PM

I checked it. Miller also indicates an Argon atmosphere is required for Ti, also Aluminum.

74t/a · 07-20-2005, 04:07 PM

I use argon and helium mix for alum......burns hotter, welds easier. It just might be the ticket for TI as well.

RUDOLFSSON · 07-20-2005, 04:09 PM

Welding Titanium is not that hard if your good at welding with a TIG/WIG welder. Use Argon gas or Argon mixed with Mison (I prefer that) for your welds. Get some Titanium filler rods (what fits your application, the Tungsten/Wolfram (the sharp rod in the gun) is the same as you would use for steel and stainless. I don't know how they are marked in the US but in Europe they are marked by color, should be Red.
The tungsten is not grinded sharp like when you're working on steel, it's more like Aluminum.
It needs more heat than you're used to.
Wire the welder up like you're used to with DC welder. Ground at +

Kristinn R.

jdw_poncho · 07-20-2005, 10:37 PM

Red for steel here also 69GTO, I read up on this also and have found a few sites that say to grind it to a point. I havent welded Ti but sounds like you have, if you grind to a point will the tungsten "burn away"? The reason why I ask is on some of the sites I've found they say to make sure you concentrate the weld in as fine of an area as possible. Maybe thats why it takes more heat. I guess what I'm getting at is I know how tough it can be sometimes to join two pieces of steel with a rounded tungsten.
Jeff

Half-Inch Stud · 07-21-2005, 07:18 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">..make sure you concentrate the weld in as fine of an area as possible. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

100Watt CO2 Laser. "..with a Laserrrrr". - Dr. Evil

CH3NO2 Pontiac · 07-21-2005, 07:30 AM

Bob:

Call Regis at Apollo Trick Titanium in Troy, Michigan.

They had to alter my titanium can from it's original hemi configuration to a BOP bellhousing pattern.

It was spendy, but you can't tell where the work was done. And the can now has a BOP, Chevy and Hemi pattern in it.

http://tricktitanium.com/

RUDOLFSSON · 07-21-2005, 11:55 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jdw_poncho:
Red for steel here also 69GTO, I read up on this also and have found a few sites that say to grind it to a point. I havent welded Ti but sounds like you have, if you grind to a point will the tungsten "burn away"? The reason why I ask is on some of the sites I've found they say to make sure you concentrate the weld in as fine of an area as possible. Maybe thats why it takes more heat. I guess what I'm getting at is I know how tough it can be sometimes to join two pieces of steel with a rounded tungsten.
Jeff </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It depends on what your welding... If your welding without filler rod (melting the parts together) you should grind it down like you're used to (very sharp), to point the gas/heat to the tiny weld.
When your welding with filler rod it's better to make it "roundy" so your pointing the gas to the sides more. This goes for Titan welding.

ponchobob · 07-25-2005, 07:46 AM

Thank's for all the reply's,was able to get all the info I needed through my other sources (just took a few day's!)-My X-ray cert's came out clean (2-G,3-G (horizontal and vertical up)-And have a few easy 2-5 day's to fab up backing gas fixtures waiting for the replacement patches to be fabricated. Gonna go through Argon like s#it through a goose, but think I have a handle on the procedures. Will be fully X-rayed anyway when I am done. Just for laughs, as far as I have been able to research, I will be the ONLY member of the building trades, besides a retired pipefitter, certifided for Ti in the Detroit area, and one of only a handful in the country! (Kaverner Songer will have spent well over $3K to get me certified) Almost certanly the only Ironworker with Ti cert's in the country! ( if I am wrong, somebody chime in and tell me

-Cool if I am!-Bob.

ponchobob · 07-25-2005, 08:04 AM

By the way 1/2" stud, the SSME is based on the H2-O2 fueled J-2 Saturn 2nd-3rd stage engine(s), NOT the kerosene fueled 1.5-1.8 million lb. thrust F-1 Saturn-V first stage engine (Still BY FAR the most powerful liquid fuel engine EVER built!!!)- The 3 SSME's TOGETHER make about the same thrust as ONE F-1! (I worked at KSC-Cape Canaveral AFB for almost 2 years, building the Titan-IV solid motor assembly bulding, and the rebuild of LC-40)-Seen the shuttle launch from the press area (3-1/2 miles away) 4 times!!!

-bOB.

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