[Bill Boyle]

From what I can tell, most if not all, Firebirds from 77-79 are still subjected to emissions testing in some shape or form in all 50 states as well in the provinces of Canada. Passing emissions is also linked to automobile licensing as well. I for one am curious to learn what the emissions requirments are for your specific 77-79 TA or Formula. Also, how often your car must be tested for pollutant emissions. Tell us if you've had any problems and what you did to pass will be enlightening. We'll address performance mods on these smogger cars in a later topic. Bill Boyle

[This message has been edited by Bill Boyle (edited 03-14-2000).]

[Bill Boyle]

From what I can tell, most if not all, Firebirds from 77-79 are still subjected to emissions testing in some shape or form in all 50 states as well in the provinces of Canada. Passing emissions is also linked to automobile licensing as well. I for one am curious to learn what the emissions requirments are for your specific 77-79 TA or Formula. Also, how often your car must be tested for pollutant emissions. Tell us if you've had any problems and what you did to pass will be enlightening. We'll address performance mods on these smogger cars in a later topic. Bill Boyle

[This message has been edited by Bill Boyle (edited 03-14-2000).]

[David]

Bill, here in Tampa, we are tested every year and must be done prior to the tag running out. They test emmissons from the tail pipe, check for converters and check the gas cap to make sure your using the right one. There must be no visible emissions coming from the car. I've also heard that they were going to start checking under the hood to make sure the charcoal canisters are installed and hooked up but no word on that yet. If you fail you have 30 days to make repairs. I've run my cars with no canister hooked up and new cats and passed with no problem. I believe a good working carb is the key as long as your not burning oil.

[Bill Boyle]

David--you mentioned "cats" are you running more than one? Do you have the stock crossover exhaust from the stock manifolds to the single converter? What's your exhaust layout? What year Firebird? Bill Boyle

[Trevor Jordan]

Oakland County Michigan. No emissions testing for any vehicles. I guess there are some good things about living here!

[KevinDush]

Oh yeah! I second that!! Michigan has it's downs (namely that crap called salt that they use so often in the winter), but at least we don't have ANY emissions testing! Woo hoo!!

Later,
Kevin

[Larry Navarro]

bill, we have emissions testing here in harris county,houston tx.
if the vehicle is 25yrs and older, it is exempt from testing. i had a problem meeting the parameters of the test on the '79 bandit(455HO), just a little over on the nox emissions; but passed upon rejetting the carb. oh yes, no cat converter either.

[Bill Boyle]

You guys in Michigan are truly free, perhaps blessed. Having clean air is everybody's business and new cars should meet all the rigid critera. Technology has advanced the automotive high performance cause and the fight for clean air. Clean air and performance can be included in the same sentence, that's great. However, our earlier cars, should now be exempt from emissions testing, in my humble but biased opinion. With less than 44,000 original miles on my 21 year old TA, it hasn't been a source of pollution. Clean air should be a bottom line test when emission testing is required. Either it passess or fails on these older cars to the standard of that year. My preference is for emission exemption on antyhing over two decades old. Bill Boyle

[Bill Boyle]

Larry--so in Harris County, TX, they aren't conducting a visual inspection. That is, they aren't checking for the equipment first before testing. How extensive is the test--a mere tailpipe sniffer at idle or an IM/240 conducted at idle and at 2500 rpm while on a dyno? Interesting result without the cat since Pontiac discontinued the 455 because of emission standards tightening. Larry, is the testing and passing directly linked to tags and registration as well? Bill Boyle

[This message has been edited by Bill Boyle (edited 03-14-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Bill Boyle (edited 03-14-2000).]

[David]

Bill, my first 79 had true dual exhaust. My last two had single a cat. My latest is on my 81 turbo SE which is a daily driver with 77,000 miles and still running the original cat. I'll let you know how it goes this year in a couple of weeks.

[Brian Baker]

Here in Maryland (the free state, yea right) all vehicles made from '77 and up are subject to emissions testing. Those made in '84 and prior only have to submit to a "sniff" check, the "treadmill" (which is exactly like California's IM-240) is voluntary. Basically we have to (at minimum) retain cats. and not have a fuel inlet that can receive the larger leaded pump gas nozzles (but they never check the fuel inlet anymore anyway). If you pass the "sniff" test (which varies from idle to 3000 rpm while in park) and have cats. that's it. If you fail, you get a retest. Fail the retest and you have to prove you've spent at least $150 on emissions repairs before they'll give you a waiver. When they reinspect for the waiver, they raise the hood and then things can get ugly. At this point, you better have an EGR, and evaporation canister, and any other emissions devices in place or they won't give you the waiver. I failed miserably twice, so I'm going to temorarily convert it to alcohol to get an alternate fuel exemption and convert it back to gasoline when I get home. What gets me is they never looked under the car to see that I had no cats. but they still passed it on that portion of the test. Since I don't put more than 500 miles on it per year, I should be able to get it exempted as it's a hobby car. Senior citizens over 70 that drive less than 5000 miles per year can get exempted, why can't I? Maybe this is something we can start lobbying for?

[Larry Navarro]

bill - what you have guessed is right! no visual inspection, sniffer test at idle to 2500rpm. yes, the test is also linked to registration tag and such.
(another trick: open vacuum nozzle on carb base).


[This message has been edited by Larry Navarro (edited 03-15-2000).]

[kkey]

My 1978 has to go through an annual inspection. So far I have not flunked yet. When I first purchased the car it had true duals and NO cats. Then I put a 272/282 cam with 442/465 lift, still passed. The next year came headers, still passed. This year I added a 1972 non-egr intake, The inspection is due in October so I will see how it does then. A few years ago when the cam was installed I had it tested and there was a 1994 Accord beside me,he flunked. My T/A with no cats and aftermarket cam ran cleaner!!!!
Here in the Dallas/Fort Worth area we have a sniffer test for cars 1975 and newer. The test is at idle then run the car up to 2500 RPMS for 90 seconds then at idle again. I always change the oil, do a tune up, and lean it out before the test.

------------------
The Pontiac Trans Am Page

[This message has been edited by kkey (edited 03-18-2000).]

[mike nixon]

Here in ind we don't have to get tested to get our tags, although i have seen spot check stickers on the windsheilds of cars from the Indianapolis area . I've also heard of this going on in the Gary/South Bend areas. I believe that the state of tune that the car is in has more to do with passing the sniff test than what the actual emissions equipt does. Back in 88 the dealership sent some of us to a sun electronics school in Indy for 2 days.The second day we took my 72 gp with a built 455 dual exhaust and no emission equipt down to sniff it out of curiosity. When we ran the test on it and it passed for the 87 model year emission standards. The instructor said it was a rare case for a car that old to run that clean, but like i said i think tuning is everything. Also i saw a 73 cat advertised in the ohio trader, in the ad it said no e-check required. whats up with that? mike

[Brian Baker]

Mike,
In Maryland you used to be able to get an emissions exemption sticker if you could prove it was equipped with a pre-emissions engine. I had one for my old '78 T/A as it had a 350 Pontiac in it out of a '73 LeMans. Ten years ago there were guys with pre-fuel injected 5.0 Mustangs ('85 and older I think) that were dropping 351 Windsors in them that were pre-76 (which is what MD tested back to at the time) and getting exempted. This can't be done anymore as the feds are no longer allowing states to do it (at least MD, isn't). Maybe your state still is?

[Skip Fix]

Bill, I like Larry live in the Houston area. There are a few counties that all touch. I live in Ft. Bend(by a few blocks) . We don't get a sniffer as Harris county get. Larry and you are both correct about the visual. ALL Texas cars in every county are to get a visual. Most of the guys in Harris that do the inspections feel that if it passes the sniffer it is ok regardless of what's missing.To get your yearly inspection your VIN is coded in to the sniffer and modemed to the state. The state DPS regulates the onspectors and pop in at any time so most won't put the sniffer in another car and key in your VIN. Harris county teset idle gases as well as at 3000 rpm. My roller motor 455 passed the 3000 rpm test but pegged the HC at idle, but the Q jet idle is a little leaner than this motor likes.

One thing around my area is they do spot checks on freeway entance ramps with an infared detector. I am not sure if its just for surveys on compliance or if the get you plate # and contact you if "dirty".

1981 cars have to match a higher criteria than 1980 and earlier. I can get exact numbers on the 4 gases if you want. That's why the 400 I'm building for the new project is a pretty tame cam.

[Bill Boyle]

Last saturday I was finally able to get a base line emissions run performed on my 79 TA. Both engine banks were tested at 15 and 25 mph on a dyno. From what I can see, the car may be very close to passing Hydrocarbons and oxides of nitrogen (NOX). Anyone have a printout of a 400 79 TA that has passed a dyno run emissions test--would love to get the passing numbers to compare. Email me at the [email protected] -- or post here. I will post my numbers this weekend.

[irishman]

Bill,

I just picked up a '78 T/A a couple of weeks ago. It's pretty much bone stock, with the cat and other emissions gear in place. I live close to you, in the Alexandria City limits. I wasn't sure where I was going to keep the car the majority of the time, so when I registered it, I got the 2 year tags, and indicated it's garaged in Fauquier County. There's no emissions testing of any type down there. So, every once in a while, I'll tuck the car away down there for a week or two.

I'd be more than happy to run 5.0-style dual cats, but that's not legal according to the state standards, so I plan to run true duals, and desmog the motor (I'll retain all of the original parts in case). For my own sake I know I'll never drive some smoke belching POS, because if for no other reason a poor running car ticks me off. I'd much rather be given a set of standards that had to be met, regardless of how you went about it. As some of the posters to this thread indicated, they can pass the spec, even though the way they did it isn't totally legit.

I suppose my "garaging" the car out of county may not be in keeping with the spirit of the law, but it does meet the letter of the law. Just my .02.

[Bill Boyle]

Here are the emissions numbers on my 79 TA. Test was an ASM Diagnostic (dyno) 25 mph and 15.

HC ppm 196; NO ppm 129; CO% 3.66; CO2% 12.0;
02 0.4%. This was the right bank. Similar numbers on opposing left bank. (No cat).

[Fusion]

Here in Minnesota, a new law was just passed exempting all vehicles from emissions testing. Although that was not the case when I got my 79 T/A. My car has about 400 horse, a Holley 750, curved distributor, no cats, 3 inch exhaust with headers, and runs rich. I knew there was no way in hell I was going to be passing, no cats alone would do it. If anyone finds out that they can't pass, here's a little trick for you as long as you don't mind being sneaky about it. In Minnesota if the motor in your car is pre-1973, you are automatically exempt (when they tested emissions). If this is the case in your state (which i bet it probably is), just go to the library and photocopy a bunch of info about whatever year motor you want to pretend is in your Poncho. The more engine codes and cast numbers you can photocopy out of a legit book, the better. Then make sure your date code on your engine is nice and gunked up with grease or whatnot, and make sure you go into the emissions testing facility on the BUSIEST day possible <--this is the key. Go in and tell them that you have an exempt motor in your car, and bombard them with paperwork proving it. Most of the time [and in my case) they will be too swamped to check, or if they do and find the casting date hard to find and/or read, it isnt worth their time to really hassle you about it. And the beauty of it is, even if they deny you, you can just go to another testing facility and try it again [it took me 2 stops). If they REALLY give you a hassle, just say thats what motor the shop told you you had in there. Thank goodness good ol' gov. Jesse Ventura passed that exemption law.

Fusion