[BAllen]

I have a stock '67 GTO convertible with factory AC. It has only had R-12 in it. The original compressor needs rebuild (the clutch is shot and the bearings make a little noise) and I'm wanting to convert the system to R-134 or Freeze 12. Want to keep the original compressor because it still looks good and has the original sticker on it. Does anyone have any experience or recommendations concerning these two products in 60's vintage cars? I want to keep it looking original.

[BAllen]

I have a stock '67 GTO convertible with factory AC. It has only had R-12 in it. The original compressor needs rebuild (the clutch is shot and the bearings make a little noise) and I'm wanting to convert the system to R-134 or Freeze 12. Want to keep the original compressor because it still looks good and has the original sticker on it. Does anyone have any experience or recommendations concerning these two products in 60's vintage cars? I want to keep it looking original.

[78 GHOST]

Sorry, in my opinion I'll spend the bucks on R-12 when I do my GTO. I converted my T/A to R-134A and have NEVER been completely satisfied with it's performance. I've read/heard of mixed reviews on Freeze 12 so I will not bother experimenting again.

You can still purchase R-12 (at a premium price) and use it domestically. If I ever spend the money to fix my GTO, I want it to work 100% correct (freeze my nuts off.)

Just my opinion and good luck to you in whatever you do.

____________________________________
Much love out to my Peeps

[Txbobcat]

I believe freeze 12 is a direct drop in no changing required but I dont know what its cooling capacity is compared to freon. R12 is as good as freon BUT it needs to go through the compressor faster than freon to keep the same qualities of freon. Not too many ways to speed up a compressor that I know off so cooling power will be around 85 to 90% as effective as freon. Maybe not a problem in cooloer climates but us boys down here need the real thing.

[BAllen]

Thanks for the replies guys. I live in the Tampabay area and I want the AC to be COLD. If anybody else has any more feed back on the the use of R123A and Freeze 12 I would appreciate it.

Buddy

[Ken K]

If you live close to Mexico you can drive the car across the border, have you A/C evacted and recharged with real R12 for about $25.00. If not go to aircondition.com, they can tell you anything you ever need to know about an A/C system.

[kate`s67gto]

I switched my Cutlass over to R134a, i wished i had not done so.It is not as cold as it was.

[mike nixon]

to switch your car over your best bet will be to buy a retrofit kit and change over your seals and o-rings.

you'll also need to change the drier [desssicant bag on your car] don't install this until you're ready to charge the system as it absorbs moisture and leaving it unsealed will ruin it.

if you go to 134 change over the oil also as r-12 oil isn't compatible with r -134.

regardless of what refridgerant you use have the complete system flushed. when the compressor locked up chances are ti ran metal thru the whole system and this needs to be removed.

from what i see r 134 will run a duct temp of 38 deg f on most systems. that's about 10 deg f warmer than what an r-12 system will run.

mike

['ol Pinion head]

http://www.heco.net/TheTruth.htm

[Tom McQueen]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a 134 type system. I have 2 of them in our daily drivers (both Nissans) and the Vintage Air system I purchased to go into the GTO is 134 as well. And I live where cold AC is used a lot. The only complaints I have heard are from R-12 systems being converted to 134. I can only guess that the conversions (for whatever reasons) simply dont work.

[78 GHOST]

Tom, you hit the nail on the head. The R-12 systems were able to use a comparatively smaller condenser (R-12 is a more efficient refrigerant) than the R-134A systems. Unfortunately, I don't know how to order an oversized condenser for classic cars, so your A/C performance suffers (especially at slow or stopped speeds.) Once you get the car moving, there is better airflow permitting better A/C performance. To some small degree, a pair of electric "pusher" fans in front of the Condenser will aid in heat exchange at slow speeds, and may to a lesser amount aid in radiator airflow as well. Still, this is a band-aid on an artery.

Your other 2 cars, and the aftermarket A/C setup are all designed with R-134A in mind. Thus, they perform MUCH better than a R-12 system that has merely had R-134A refrigerant installed.

The analogy I use is: Early HP muscle cars forced to detune on today's fuels. Not as efficient as a car designed from the beginning with lower octane fuels in mind.

____________________________________
Much love out to my Peeps

[rted]

78 Ghost has it exactly right. I went to an A/C shop today and the owner showed me the condensers used on the old R-12 systems vs. the ones for the new R134 systems. The R134 condensers are much larger and have a more efficient design, which is why the newer cars work as good as or better than the old cars ever did. He also said that R134 performance lags that of R12 when the outside temp is above about 85F.

As far as Freeze 12 goes, everything I've read about it says it is a better alternative for retrofit than R134, but according to the guys I talked to at two shops, no shop will touch your AC once you've done the conversion as they are required to have separate evacuation & storage systems for each chemical compound. At $4000 each and with so few using Freeze 12, it is not cost effective for them to buy the machine.

Bottom line, I'm going to stick with the R12 as long as it's available.

['ol Pinion head]

I would cry BS on the statement that no shop will touch your A/C system after conversion to Freeze 12 or Freezone. There are tons of shops that will do the work...& even more individuals. Just typical propaganda put out by the makers of $3500 reclamation machines & volume selling 134A conversion kits. Think of it this way, if there is nothing in the system to recover what can contaminate their d#mn machine.

Having "reconverted" several vehicles ('87 Cutlass, '84 Chevy pickup, '86 Suburban, '90 model LandCuiser) off previous 134 conversions, I'll never convert anything anything to 134-A. Last summer, my stubborn brother converted his LandCruiser to 134-A, it wasn't 5 days & that crap was out, flushed, Freeze12 & new oil in. Result...ran close to 20 defrees cooler & my sister-in-law was off the warpath!

[Tom McQueen]

For oversized condensers, check Vintage Air's on line catalog. The one I ordered almost covers the entire front of the radiator. This is one item where bigger is always better, assuming it still fits in the available area.

[DanC]

I have converted all of my R-12 systems and my friends systems to Duracool 12a. Even changed out a R-12 to 134 conversion to Duracool with better results. By converting I mean just changeing the refrigerant, nothing else. I've even topped off Freon w/ Duracool with no problems. Lower head pressures and cooling at idle than 134. Dang near identical to Freon performance! Compatible with all refrigerant oils. All of us are happy and cool!!!

And just so everyone knows I do label my systems as "serviced with Duracool 12a" so as to not contaminate a shops recovery system. However i do my own work and would only be an issue if myself or my friends sold their cars!

I don't want to hear any flack about flammability issues as 134 is flammable too AND produces toxic fumes when burning. Besides all fluids in the engine bay are flammable anyway! Duracool is a hydrocarbon refrigerant.

www.duracool.com

I buy from Fox Tool & Supply Madison, TN (615)865-6251

Sorry if I got on a soap box!!! I just really like this stuff!

DanC