[Rob]

The first year I went to maple grove, I must have made 20 and Im not exaggerating or 30 trips up those tower steps to organize annoucers and the KRE Q16 race. They wouldn't announce the bump and how to enter! Ask Russ White and Jerry Brock! I hand pulled them to the tower while their cars were in the staging lanes for bracket 1 & 2 during the final call for final round of Q16. Both paid 20 bucks to win $25 for qualifying and chance to win $1000.00 I believe it was back then and there were only 14 cars in a 16 car field at the time.

It's a real shame racers keep putting so much effort into the Maple Grove event, to only have it be so lame.

-Rob

[PONTIAC DUDE]

This might piss off some people but........

And if they run it next year?

More Pontiac people will show up, race, show, swap meet and still bitch.
Seen it a bizillion times with all forms of racing. Not me though.

I learned after the second time. LOL.
Ya don't have to hit me in the head with a hammer.

I think that if people put an effort into <span class="ev_code_RED">Jim Zeek's Virginia Pontiac Event</span> and blow off the M.G. event. Justice will be served. Otherwise, your just showing what promotors will do, knowing what racers will tolerate to race. Or is it that ya just are used to being treated like kennel Dogs.

Seen it for 35 plus years.

Sorry, but..........
Racers as a whole will "NEVER" organize.

[RH152]

glad i didnt make the 3 plus hr tow thought it would be a bad day wait till Atco they are running a motorcycle race with the Pontiacs that should be fun see you next yr in virginia

[Fish]

The hell with Maple Grove and LONG LIVE Jim Zeek's Pontiac's In The Park!!!

[tiacguy]

In my opinion M.G. is a joke never again. Im not a full time racer I only go to nostalgic,Pontiac events or Friday nights at the beaver so Im not familiar with all the classes. I was put in pb-2 no electronics only to find out at the bleach box 1st round,I cant run faster then 10.00. The attendent walked over and xx out my 9:76 and replaced it with 10:00. I lifted 10 feet before the mile per hr line and still went under at 9:81 well that was that. It would have been nice to know of the ET restriction up front. The bottom line is I race with the full time racers with all the electronics,or dont go any faster than 10:00.I know Bob Macardle the owner of Beaver Springs Race way he is a member of our local car club also.I know for a fact he is a great fan of the Pontiac racers he loves them whenever Im at the track he makes it a point to tell the fans its ALL Pontiac.Im sure he would be glad to hold our event.

[D. Miles]

My Buddy George was running Nostalgia 2 (with his 84 Cutlass) when for our 1 and only time shot a blown alcohol injected FED is pulled down the lanes next to him (what the help was a 7 second FED doing in a class with a 10.00 cut off just as TIACGUY spoke about!!!) anyway they pulled George around to the water box while they got the dragster started, pulled the dragster around he did his 200 ft. burnout and as he was backing up the dragster stalled, took them around a while to get re-started then gave George the signal to start his burn out then they held him back anyway to let the dragster run a single then they pulled another car around for George to run moved him back into the water to do a second burnout, when he finally staged he was over 200 degrees, he ran a 13.25 @ 102 so first round as he staged the car @ 150 degrees the car was alot stronger, he ran a 13.02 @ 94 backing out just after the 1000 ft. stripe! I won't be back any more either!!!

[Brian Baker]

Here's my point of view on the event, from being a racer last year (that broke) to a spectator this year:

Last year - I broke early, before eliminations. Not long afterwards, the track experienced a power failure. 2.5 hours pass before power is restored, at which point the remainder fo the program is rushed. Does the track turn on their generatot(s)? No. Apparently for those running the show (George Case?), this is too costly of a solution.

This year - I'm spectating. The ONLY reason I'm there (no offense to my Pontiac brothers and sisters) is to see some nostalgia funny cars and FED's. After last years generator debacle, I said I'd never come back, and I didn't this year, except that it was rained out. Had the rain out date not fallen on the "Geezers" race, I wouldn't have been there.

We (my wife's Uncle Donnie and I) arrive around 9:30, and park with Bud Lyons in his pit. We later learn that the timing equipment is broken from an electrical storm the previous day. Well, it increasingly looks like it's going to be one big nostalgia car show, so we walk the pits.

In meeting with other Pontiac racers, we learn that the program is going to be combined, ie - the Pontiacs will be racing in the same classes with the nostalgia cars. Pontiac racers wondered what would happen to their purse payouts (and so was I). It was later learned that the purses would be "combined", ie - both the Pontiac racers AND the Pontiac sponsor(s) were going to get the short end of the stick. It is at this time we learn that Jim Zeek has long since left in disgust.

OK, the timing equipment is fixed and there's racing. We sit and watch for at least an hour and, what's this? A Chevy Suburban and an 80'something Oldsmobile lining up? I came to see some nostalgia cars, WTF is this? Thankfully, that only happened once.

OK, some of the Pontiac heavy hitters are coming out. Scott Rex aborts his pass shortly after the 330' cone, John Langer is right behind and does the same, nearly tagging the wall. It is then the crew comes out to clean the track. I tell Donnie not to worry, they'll be back for another pass later. But WAIT! What's this? There's only going to be ONE TIMED RUN for everyone for the day! Well, ok...I'll go along with that because the track was packed and there was some down time in the morning. Much to my suprise, however, the "Top 32" class later gets a second timed run, but they're the only class that gets one. WTF is up with that?

Live music in the newly constructed beer garden. Yup, that makes ALOT of sense while racing is going on. Even more annoying to hear music over the P.A. system at the same time I'm hearing live music from the "garden".

I can't say that I had a bad time, I didn't, but I do feel for those that were racing that got the short end of the stick, because the racers are the reason the spectators are there.

Paul Spotts did indeed have the fastest FED there (save for the two nitro cars), albeit most of the other FED's were merely injected and not blown. Even still, a 10 second injected alcohol FED is not very exciting. 9 second is a little better. 8's are great, but I only recall seeing one injected FED that was that fast.

If I were a sponsor/promoter, I'd investigate having this Pontiac event (or another like it around the same time of the year) at Cecil County. It'll still draw the same "crowd", and the treatment the sponsor(s) and racers will get would be better.

[Juliano]

Is maple grove set up for emergencies, example regulated amount of fire trucks, ambulances per number of attendees etc.. like here in Canada or is there no reg's down there. If so is the manager of Maple Grove running track illegal.? just some thoughts.

[TA454]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Juliano:
Is maple grove set up for emergencies, example regulated amount of fire trucks, ambulances per number of attendees etc.. like here in Canada or is there no reg's down there. If so is the manager of Maple Grove running track illegal.? just some thoughts. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I honestly doubt that they are in violation of any ordinances. Not cause they give a RATS A%% bout anybody but themselves.When it comes to stuff like REQUIRED safety equipment and Required emergency staff. Jaskass George Case is TOO CHEAP to be stupid.


Prehaps we should form somekind of protest about the treatment racers receive there. Not just Pontiac racers but Racers in general. there have been incidents like this at other events also. Someone should come up with a shirt design to express our views that we should ALL wear at the MOTORSPORTS EXPO in Ft. Washington in January ( where the grove sets up a booth).
Especially since there will possibly be a display from VMP promoting Jim's PONTIACS IN THE PARK event. This could be our chance to show George Case (who is also in attendance at the expo) That us EastCoast pontiac racers have found a new "HOME" track in VMP and Bryan Price.

As stated before if 1 person decides NOT to go back there is still 2 more that will take their place. So how do we convince those next 2 not to go By showing up in large numbers to express our dissatifaction.

Shirts can not be censored will there be any change in treatment? Doubtful. But if even 1 person at that expo asks someone wearing a shirt why they are dissatified. and that 1 person never goes again than that is yet another entry/spectator fee that George Case will NEVER be allowed to STEAL again.
You turn away enough spectators/entrants you will evcentually turn away sponsors and promotors.
It can happen Rodger Gustin pulled Super Chevy from Englishtown in 97 due to similar issues!
Just something to think bout.

By the way what was up with those Bullsheet "AWARDS" they stopped racing for yesterday. and wouldnt it have made more sence to have done that while they were waiting for the timers to get fixed?

[PontiPowered84TA]

I agree with everyone else....Move the event next year top Cecil, and He!! with Maple Grove....Like others, i will not be going back to the Grove...except for the spring and fall swap meets...but no more racing...Hopefully everyone who is involed with the Atco Race, can get that organized and not let what happened at Maple Grove, happen at Atco...Us Hardcore Pontiac Guys can't be treated like this, we deserve better and better is what we will get

[Jeff V]

Ok,ok...everybody calm down.First,I will say that a Pontiac did win the Geezers at the Grove race.Mine. I do have alot of gray in my hair,but a Geezer I am not.So,at least we (as Pontiac owners)can be proud that a Pontiac took the event.It was a long day,I left at 4:00am and got home at 4:00am.I will say the track was good for my car,but I have a mild bracket racing set-up.I didn't like seeing the Pontiacs out numbered by the other brands on our day at the racetrack,but I went to win and didn't really care who my opponent was.It was a 6 round race and I only raced 2 Pontiac powered cars.
The problem I am having now is trying to figure out who originally sponsored the race and if they are still going to honor their certificates and prizes.I'm not looking for anything extra,but just what I was supposed to get for winning the race.
I talked to George today and he told me that Butler is sending me a certificate.He also said that All Pontiac.com was supposed to give a certificate as well.It was announced during the race that AllPontiac.com was giving out a certificate to the Pontiac that goes the most rounds or wins the event.
This was my first race at The Grove,and although I wanted it to be a Pontiac only event,I had fun racing,and I won the race,so I can't bitch but so much.

[Brian Baker]

An open letter to George Case that Scott Misus asked that I post here:

Well, George; it sure looks like you f#%@ed this one up. Again.

Here, have a look:

http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...11&m=138104967

The largest Pontiac forums on the Internet aren't treating you kindly, sir. Perhaps you ought to do what you do best: hosting National Events........and shows for rednecks with Chevies and wiggers with imports.

Ray Weaver really worked hard several years ago to get this thing off the ground. You on the other hand, tore it down in only two years, following last year's generator debacle.

I hope your yearly compensation package isn't tied to the successes of the purses at your shows, because it appears as though the Pontiac community has just told Maple Grove "GFY!"

What, exactly, are the standards for admission to a Pontiac or a nostalgia drag race? Seeing Chevy Suburbans and *****box 1983 Oldsmobiles Cutlasses racing certainly wasn't what I had in mind when I took two people with me today to see "nostalgia racing." I could have witnessed stellar performances like these by attending an $8 test and tune Friday event.

You really need to check yourself in the mirror, George. Apparently your head isn't screwed on quite right. Better yet, perhaps you ought to consider pulling it out of your a$$ first.

What's the owner's name, again? I'd like to CC him/her with this.

Have a nice day, George.

Best,


Scott Misus

[6567GTO]

Ah! I miss Scott's sharp tongue! LOL!

I misses Misus!

Congrats Jeff! Way to go!

[63 lemans]

congrats jeff v !!! I have to agree with brian baker after Ray Weaver left everything started to fall apart now they have squirrels running the track and clowns judging the carshow and now it is one big circus!!!!!!!!!

[Jim Zeek]

There is no promoter for the race at Maple Grove like the events by Pete Woodruff and myself. I was talking to George at the division race in May about Virginia and he said I should take over the race at Maple Grove. Trying to be polite I avoided telling him the reason I would not be interested. The reason? They have treated enough people like crap over the years that no matter how many or deep of friendships I have will I be able to bring people back to this event make it what it could have been. It is not just the Pontiac people they treat bad. At Super Chevy I was on the staring line with my friend Harry when he motioned for the guy to put some more water down in the water box so he could do the proper burnout his car needs. The guy looks over at me and I make a spraying hose jesture to him and he looks back at Harry and shakes his head no and waves for him to pull in. This is in 90 degree plus weather so water is evaporatin quickly. ( And we sure as h@#l ain't having a drought in this part of the country!) Harry pulls in, does a burnout. I know it is not his normal burnout. He stages the car. When the car leaves it spins the tire so bad that a blind person could see it. 60' is off .08 and he loses first round. So we are not the only ones. I guess you have to be a regular to be treated nice. Why has this event had 4 sponsors in its time? I think there may have even been a year with no major sponsor. Congrats Jeff on your win but since this was your first time there you really don't know the history of this track. Even though you won I think you got screwed. The original purse for the Pontiac day was $450.00. You got $600.00 for yesterday. That was a bonus right? Not in my opinion. Anybody who won yesterday was going to win $450.00. So you should have gotten that PLUS the $450.00 from the ORIGINAL purse payout. George Case kept $300.00 of your prize money. If this is how you like to be treated then I will send you my address and you can send me part of the money you won at the gamblers race in Virginia. (Just kidding). You could have went and raced the same type of cars at Virginia Motorsports Park this weekend at the 2 $5000 races they were having. I was thinking of going but decided to try and help the Pontiac event and see all my friends and talk about Norwalk and next years VMP event. My mistake. At least at VMP this weekend anyone who went 2 rounds would have been in the money. Ken, I will not go back there for a Pontiac event or regular race day again. I will only go back for the swap meets and to race in the 1 National event I want to race in. I know there are plenty of others who this is the last time there also. As to moving to Cecil County....I raced there many weekends and spoke to the owner in Oct/Nov last year. Told him what I wanted to do. Told him I wanted a Saturday and asked how much, what hours etc. I asked when was a good time to get in touch with him to talk more about it. He said to call him anytime during the week. After 3 weeks of calling and emails I finally get him on the phone tell him who I am, that I talked to him about a Pontiac event there. His response: I have your number, I am working on the schedule now and will call you when I'm done. This was in December for the 2004 schedule. He must still be working on it because I have not heard from him yet. I called VMP on December 18th, (2 days before they were away for 2 weeks for the holidays). I told Bryan what I wanted to do and when. He said he might have a date but was waiting on the other party to confirm whether they wanted it or not and that he would get back to me after the 1st of the year. He called on Monday Jan 5th and gave me a date. I went down 2 days later and set up the VMP race. He was excited and looking forward to having a new Pontiac race at his track because I told him about the Pontiac community. After the event both Bryan and Todd the track manager told me they enjoyed having us and were looking for the event to grow over the years. This is what makes an event enjoyable for everyone, the participants and the workers. When we like what a sponsor does for us at these events we need to let them know how much we appreciate the money they are spending so they know they are spending it for a good reason. Therefore I also think that we also need to let them know when we are not happy and that they might be wasting thier money. I don't think Jim Butler or Performance Years got thier moneys worth out of Maple Grove this year. As I said before this is hard for me because I have been going to Maple Grove since I was 3 years old and have lots of good memories but it only takes 1 to make you forget them. Sorry for being so long but most of you know I have many friends and how I love the Pontiac community and only want the best for us

[JohnJudge]

Congrats Jeff!!! It was a good event for a spectator! Wow, it was alot of cars! It was good to see the cars and people from the post and I got alot off goodies out of the swap meet.

[Brian Baker]

Here's a link from MG's website to the ad with purses:

http://www.maplegroveraceway.com/events/pontiacs.html

That's almost $1500 in purse money spread over 3 classes. Where did it go?

[Jim Zeek]

Brian, check the date. That is the add from 2001. So as an event gets older the purses go down? $500.00 in 2001. $450.00 in 2004?

[Brian Baker]

Oooops! Didn't see the date. Even still, that purse money went somewhere.

[herdswoman]

Paul, you were right on with throwing that fit. It only took you three years to get that mad at them. Just imagine how it would have been if Pop had been there too.

Based on what I've read in this thread, the racers who will no longer return to M-G are:

Jim Zeek
Paul Spotts
FishStang
Hot Rod
6567 GTO
Russ White
Lil Jack
60man - Troy Tribbe
Crazy Ray
Rocky
Tiacguy

...and those from years past who will no longer go:

Tom & Amy Richcreek
Scott Esterle
Ken & Karen Keefer
KRE
Bill Mellott
Jerry Brock

....and these are just the people I can name, no telling how many more are out there.

Another thing that strikes me is that George Case has money to invest in a new beer garden and live music while the electrical system for the timing tower remains down from the day before. Same deal as the year before, evidently nobody learned anything from that.....Why wouldn't they keep an inventory of spare parts so that they could repair/replace and get up and running quickly? Actions speak louder than words and that shows pretty clearly where his priorities are. I guess that's because he figures racers will just buy a beer and listen to the tunes Probably a bigger profit margin in beer anyway. Maybe he should manage a bar, because it's pretty clear that he doesn't want to run a racetrack.

OK, JIM ZEEK, aka CHIEF PONTIAC of CHIEF PONTIAC PRODUCTIONS......I challenge you to organize an event at Cecil County (or other venue) for the month of July. Don't worry, I'll help you. Keep the participants as your first priority and it will all work out just fine. I think I know of a sponsor - or two - that you can call. Does any of this sound familiar?