[bmpmdf]

A well tuned and balanced combo is always a good thing. I like a just as easy 375-400 hp combo as the 300 hp combo myself. Once you get into changing to screw in studs and valvesprings, (which any aftermarket cam with more than .440" lift needs) it might as well be to make the hp to show for it. You can still use the Crane "drop in" springs even with the cam along the lines of the high 220's of duration at .050" lift. Oh. don't even go by the advertised duration numbers as they are not comparible from one company to another. Go by the duration at .050" lift numbers and the lift at the valve rating. When possible, duration at .200" lift is nice to know, but not many companies will let you know those. The cams I would use out of what was mentioned is A) The Melling 068 replacement (part # SPC-7, won't have to change valvesprings with it), B) the summit 2802, (but you need new valesprings to handle it) or the Crower one listed earlier. If you pull the heads to change valvesprings, enlarge the intake pushrod holes toward the rocker arm stud so you can later add 1.65 rocker arms without binding up the pushrods.

[bmpmdf]

One other thing, I do agree that a pre egr factory intake will be just as good performance wise as a more expensive edelbrock perfomer plus the engine will look stock.

[screamingchief]

ABSOFRICKINLUTELY!!! Agree 100%!!!

[screamingchief]

Also agree that slot mod would be a good idea,and i prefer crower 68404 springs which are also drop-ins(duals).

[bmpmdf]

I mentioned the crane springs because they seem to be easier to get. But out of the two, I prefer the Crowers.

[screamingchief]

Yeah that's the problem! LOL...

[PMDRACER]

Not picking a fight, just a response based on what I've read.

As I said, cast iron intake would be fine. But unless you're needing one for smog tests, ditch the EGR version. The extra heat in the manifold is a power reducer, as are the extra bumps and humps in the floor from the EGR passages. The non-EGR is lighter too, but negligible argument here since the aluminum is lighter than both of them.

I tried to get away with 3/8 studs on the '69 and broke 2 of them at the bottleneck. 7/16 minimum, and the machine shop down the street from me quoted me $55 for the screw in studs and $100 to tap the holes. I got hold of the HO Racing tool and did it myself for the price of the studs and whatever I paid for the tap.

MSD ignition - if an automatic, it can wait. For a manual, I'd say the 6AL should be on the list near the top if you're going to race it at all. Either way, it can wait. Get an HEI from a boneyard and convert when you can. The points will be fine, but I put points ignition in the same list as manual drum brakes. Understand?

Headers and duals are an absolute must after the manifold and 4 bbl carb. What goes in, must come out. I picked up a full second and then some after changing out the cast irons, single exhaust to $20 3-tube headers and duals with $10/each Super Shops turbo mufflers.

Camshaft choice has been beaten to death here, so I'll refrain.
But valvesprings - if you have over 80,000 miles on the originals, change them or at least have them checked. Summit sells the Performer Pontiac valve springs for $81/set, and Jeg's sells the Crane equivalent for $64/set. You'll have the heads apart for cleaning. Swap the springs.

Also:
Do a search on the boards for head porting. Anybody with an electric drill and a set of cheap burrs can at least gasket match the heads and intake, and clean up the bowls a little bit. MAJOR power producers? For just the little bit of grinding you'll be doing, most likely no. But how can you turn down 20+ HP if you're willing to give up some time?

I love this thread!

[screamingchief]

Quote "I love this thread" ME TOO!!!

[70LeMANS]

No apologies. Putting my own screw in studs IS out of the ball park to honest, but I'm willing to learn (working on a friends car of course! ) that's why I asked how much it would cost me.

It's an auto, but i wasn't going to buy an MSD right off the bat. =)The igniation was converted to HEI from the previous owner (sorry i didn't say this before). Duals were done also done by previous owner that didn't include Xpipe and are dumped before the dfferencial.

20 hp is well worth some time

[screamingchief]

I fully agree that a 2.25" or 2.5" full exhaust with headers is a VERY good idea,but it can be added virtually anytime as long as there is some sort of exhaust system on it now.And as far as the studs almost any machine shop should be able to handle that reasonably.PMD racer's statement should say it all,I tried to get away with 3/8" bottleneck and broke two,and I'm sure it did'nt happen pulling in the driveway.I will go out on a limb and say that this is probably the single biggest factor for the #48 heads being used on the '69 350 H-O as all earlier hi-po 350s used the 067 cam at most,but the '69 was offered with the 068 in manual trans cars and the engineers at pontiac probably figured they (S.I.S.) were a good idea.

[PMDRACER]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> and I'm sure it did'nt happen pulling in the driveway. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're right. Didn't happen at the strip either. Even worse than the strip - cruising at 75 MPH on the freeway doing 3000 RPM on the way home from the strip. Couldn't shut it off. Had to drive what seemed like 5 miles before I could pull over.
Ended up pulling the valve covers, removing what was left of the studs, nuts, rocker arms and pivot balls, along with the pushrod from both of the offending spots, (an exhaust on the passenger side, an intake on the driver's side), putting the covers back on, and limping the other 25 miles home.

[b-man]

Here's a mild 350 combo I put together for a '69 Firebird that my brother owns, a heavily optioned car (A/C, power discs/steering/windows/drivers seat, deluxe interior) that weighs over 3700#.

350 bored +.030
1969 400/428 #46 heads, cheap valve job/used stock springs, press-in bottle-neck studs
Crane blueprint 068 cam (212/[email protected],.407"lift) advanced 4 degrees running stock 1.5 rockers
Cloyes Tru-Roller timing chain set
Stock 1969 iron intake, exhaust crossover still functional
1972 400 750 Q-jet
91 octane premium unleaded (9:1 compression)
Stock points distributor
Stock log exhaust manifolds, cheap 2-1/4" dual exhaust
TH400 trans with shift kit
TCI Saturday Night Special converter, approx 2500 stall
1980 T/A 10-bolt 8.5 rear, 3.42 posi
235/60-15 street radials, no traction devices

This car ran a 15.21 ET at a 2800 ft. altitude track, launching easy so as not to spin the tires. Using the standard correction factor for this track the ET at sea-level would be in the 14.80s.

All stock or stock-replacement type parts were used for this engine build. The 068 cam was chosen with .407" lift because of the press-in studs. I didn't want to overstress the valve train and I wanted the simplicity of using the stock 20# valve adjustment procedure (actually no adjustment, stock non-adjustable valvetrain).

A no-frills 350 built on the CHEAP and a decent runner.

[WCWhitey]

You guys make some very valid points and I will agree in alot of cases the studs are needed. My 400 heads have BBC studs w/helicoils but the heads were already apart. The springs checked out so they were installed at the proper height and left alone. That is with the XE256 .447/.455 212/218 @.050 (a mild cam), stock type rockers with the BBC nuts. So on that point I will concede, probably good insurance. I really like B-Mans combo above, just think what that could do with a good set of headers and nice exhaust. PMDRACER got a full second with a cheapie exhaust. This is a nice winters bench racing session, good luck!

[PMDRACER]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> A no-frills 350 built on the CHEAP and a decent runner. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A decent runner? Now there's an understatement! C'mon B-Man - all your stuff runs like a scalded ape!
Seriously guys, I've known B-man for a long time. All his stuff just plain boogeys. Ask him about his bracket car. Consistent as a heart attack. I know - I've had to run him tooooo many times at LACR!
Sure gets the PMDRACER Seal of Approval!

[screamingchief]

Yeah like them #46 small valves on B-mans too, had a pair(or two)myself that I was going to use on a build like these,had to let em go when I moved once. I have the 350 shortblock out of my 72 firebird that I'm putting a 455 in and all this talk has me wanting to put that back in something(ohmygodnotANOTHERcar!)just gotta track down the right heads which is a piece of cake cuz hardly anyone desires these all that highly(woohoo bonus!).

[screamingchief]

By the way that motor(the stuff I got rid of to move) is in black-cat's convertable now that is in the lobby in a thread called aaargh! check it out and see how nice that one worked out!

[70LeMANS]

It's me again.. =)Well, i have been researching my build for some time here and on other boards, and guys keep saying the same thing. "C.I. intake is the way to go!". I remeber you guys saying there is no difference in performance increase when using a performer. Only real "increase" that was had from this intake is weight and the ability to get rid of heat a bit better. I found a C.I. one for 10 bucks and if no increase is to be had on a performer might as well save the cash for other parts, no?

[screamingchief]

At least till a performer pops up cheap I'd run the cast iron,might even leave it on till I've exhausted all the other areas of gains.

[bmpmdf]

That's good parts shopping. And you can claim "it's stock" to the unknowing.

[Jagtec1]

In my 3500 # car, my 350 went 13.80's. Nothing special. I posted it before. 2400 stall, 3.55 posi, cheapy 3 tube headers, .030 over, 47 heads with NO port work, Performer intake (blocked crossover), Holley 600 Vac sec. (choke removed...it was undercarbed for the track), MSD (not needed), HEI, Crane HMV 272-2 cam (216/228 @.050) with .454/.480 lift, regular hyd lifters (you don't need Roades with it!!) and new Crane valve springs. NO screw in studs......about 50 passes under my belt now.maybe more, and motor is fine.

There are a million ways to do it, but you can build an economy 350 that will make plenty of power. My motor was already built and in the car, all I did was reseal it, new timing set, and went thru the heads....I changed from the Q-jet to the Holley, and swapped the intake from a junk P4B. Good luck, and have fun! Don't be afraid to delve in and learn something either.....I used to be afraid of it, as I really only work on NEWER cars. I had no clue about carbs, and pushrod V-8's. Now I feel much more comfortable with it.