[Bob with the 66]

I'll start by saying I hate electronics!
Here's what I have, MSD 6al box, billet MSD distributer and MSD coil and trying to hook up a "2nd New" MSD retard box for my Nos. The car starts great without the retard. Disconnect dist from 6al, connect to retard using violet and green extension wire, connect yellow wire from retard to white wire from 6al and connect red to 12v switched and black to ground. Car will not start! Pulled coil wire and it gets spark to ground but car just stumbles and then backfires thru carbs like a timing issue. But I dissconnect retard wires and she fires right up on 1/2 a crank. Please help all, after 12 calls the MSD tech is stumped and can not help any more. Sorry for the long post.

All good things are worth waiting for. "Yeah right", I want them now!

"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity".

[Bob with the 66]

I'll start by saying I hate electronics!
Here's what I have, MSD 6al box, billet MSD distributer and MSD coil and trying to hook up a "2nd New" MSD retard box for my Nos. The car starts great without the retard. Disconnect dist from 6al, connect to retard using violet and green extension wire, connect yellow wire from retard to white wire from 6al and connect red to 12v switched and black to ground. Car will not start! Pulled coil wire and it gets spark to ground but car just stumbles and then backfires thru carbs like a timing issue. But I dissconnect retard wires and she fires right up on 1/2 a crank. Please help all, after 12 calls the MSD tech is stumped and can not help any more. Sorry for the long post.

All good things are worth waiting for. "Yeah right", I want them now!

"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity".

[RH152]

had a problem like thatonce was a defective box i hate msd use points in my 9 sec car

pure pontiacpowerd 86 grand am
455 eheads hyd. cam 9.24 at 145

[Brian Baker]

Bob, I'm using an MSD-6 with the retard as well for my nitrous. Let me look at my directions tomorrow and get back to you on this. It sounds like you have the retard box connected correctly with the yellow wire going to the white wire on the MSD6. Is the violet wire going to a 12V source that is only activated when the starter solenoid is activated? I have mine wired right off of the solenoid.

Could it be you do not have enough initial timing to start with? That violet wire will pull 20 degrees of timing out of it when activated, and if you only have 10 or 15 initial, that could be why it isn't starting.

I have the mechanical advance in my HEI locked out, and have it set at 36 degrees. The retard box drops that back to 16 degrees for starting.

[Brian Baker]

And if you're going to use the retard box to pull timing out when using nitrous, I STRONGLY recommend that you lock out the mechanical advance in the distributor if you haven't done so already.

[Bob with the 66]

Brian, thanks for the reply,

I don't even have the violet wire connected, I did not even plan on using the start retard, don't need it. Violet is taped up out of the way.
Timing is at 36 degrees, mechanical is connected.
Please tell me why should I lock this up. Newbie here....

This is my second retard box, I already thought that the box might have been bad.
I think that my next step is to ground the grey wire direct to the battery and see if that works, just as a test.
Fed up, need to take a break for a few days.

All good things are worth waiting for. "Yeah right", I want them now!

"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity".

[Brian Baker]

I didn't look at the directions, will do so tomorrow. I do know for fact that any of the 3 retard wires that aren't being used need to be grounded. I think this is the case for the violet wire (20 degree retard for starting) as well.

There are a few good reasons for locking out the mechanical advance when using this retard box.

First and foremost, it makes it easier and more consistent when dialing in the retard for whatever amount of nitrous you want to run. Having the mechanical advance functioning in tandem with the retard in the box can have the actual timing "all over the place". This can be a problem under a nitrous load until the engine reaches an rpm where the mechanical advance is in full.

Another reason is throttle response. I have mine locked at 36 degrees. The throttle response from idle is awesome.

Third, when checking the amount of retard in the box with a timing light, if the mechanical advance is locked out, you don't have to rev the engine to 3000 rpm or so to do it. Just check it at idle.

I'd lock out the mechanical advance. It will make dialing in the timing retard easier, and more consistent. Not being consistent when using nitrous is what hurts parts.

Pull 2 degrees of timing out for every 50-HP of nitrous, plus 1 degree. In other words, if using a 150-HP shot, pull out 7 degrees. This is being conservative and won't hurt parts from too much timing lead. You can tune it later, but use this as a baseline.

Keep an eye on fuel and bottle pressure. I'm still in the learning stages myself, but I know enough right now on how to make power with nitrous conservatively and not hurt parts. If you need any tips on dialing in the fuel pressure or bottle pressure, let me know.

[johnta1]

Which retard box are you using?

Have you tried the MSD site?
MSD

johnta1
Pontiac Power RULES !!!
www.wallaceracing.com

[Brian Baker]

Here's what he has:

http://www.msdignition.com/pdf/pn8970.pdf

[Brian Baker]

Bob, if you haven't done so already, GROUND every retard wire that is not being used. I just reread your first post and it sound slike it wants to fire but just sputters and dies? If the retard wires that aren't being used aren't grounded, there's your problem.

[Bob with the 66]

Hi Brian,

Thanks for all the help, I contacted MSD Tech and they say not to ground the violet wire just to cap it.

I'm going to try grounding the grey wire direct to the battery and see if that is the problem.

If not MSD say's that they have run across engine that need the timing to be adjusted with the addition of a retard box.

I will keep you updated.

All good things are worth waiting for. "Yeah right", I want them now!

"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity".