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#1
09-03-2003, 08:07 PM
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I have tried to use two sets of the viton seals with no luck on both accounts. No i am putting the rope seal in. My question is witch one is it the shorter thicker one or the longer thinner seal. The motor is a 455 ho 1970 vintage.
thanks Robert |
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#2
09-03-2003, 08:07 PM
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I have tried to use two sets of the viton seals with no luck on both accounts. No i am putting the rope seal in. My question is witch one is it the shorter thicker one or the longer thinner seal. The motor is a 455 ho 1970 vintage.
thanks Robert |
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#3
09-03-2003, 09:10 PM
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The longer thinner one. It will leak too since the new rope seals dont use asbestos anymore.
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#4
09-03-2003, 09:15 PM
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I have used the BOP seal on two occassions with no trouble.
I think you should have a machinist mic the crank and dial bore the cap to see if you can uncover WHY before you try again to seal your leak. It is likely the seal ain't the problem.
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1969 Black Bonneville convertible 428HO |
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#5
09-04-2003, 08:13 AM
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They have changed the way the make the rope seal. They used to use asbestos in them and thats why the used to work so well. No more asbestos so the modern rope seal isnt as good as the ones back in the day
 69Firebird roundport/roller455 70Catalina 455 72Skylark Buick 455 89 Iroc 305 stock 192RWHP/263RWTQ I cant leave anything alone.
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69Firebird roundport/roller455 336rwhp/425rwpft 12.62 @ 108.60 70Catalina 455 72Skylark Buick 455 89 Iroc 305 stock 192RWHP/263RWTQ I cant leave anything alone. |
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#6
09-04-2003, 08:55 AM
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I have the newer type rope seal in my 462 (going on four years) and no leaks. The key to no leaks is to pack the SEAL PER FACTORY SHOP MANUAL INSTRUCTONS. Just laying it in and installing the cap won't cut it.
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#7
09-04-2003, 09:44 AM
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Floyd - Someone that you know very well did the same thing and he still had trouble with the new seal. I had the same problem I had a section about 3/4" long just disappear. I would not consider using anything but the BOP seal.
http://www.jimspontiac.homestead.com/Index.html 
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#8
09-04-2003, 10:13 AM
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It's most likely an older one.
I've had plenty of the new ones leak within a year. I'm now checking the ones left over for the old style to use on my newer engines if the Person is not willing to purchase the BOP one. Usually I'm found working on my Pontiac. If you want to find me Look for the white picket fence and all the old Pontiacs parked outside. And the half dissembled engine sprawled all over the driveway! 
__________________
Try calling CRUSHPROOF! 512-386-9889 |
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#9
09-04-2003, 10:38 AM
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Here's what I just found on my block after having two ropes and one viton seal leak (all within a month of each other!!) I checked the dimmensions of the seal groove. And although it was round, it was NOT on the same centerline as the crank!! The depth of the groove from parting line was 0.020" deeper in the cap than in the block. That taken into acount with some other dimmensions meant that the viton seal was not, or just barley touching in the cap half. I don't yet know if it is fixed, since I'm assembling the motor again this afternoon. It really sucks, cause you have to take the crank out to check this. But in my case it was a good thing, cause after doing it three times with out taking the crank out, I did this time and also found a broken ring. This was probably causing all the crankcase pressure blowing the oil past the seals.
So why is it that Pontiacs are such a pain to seal here?? I've done zillions of SBC and BBC with no trouble at all. Good luck |
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#10
09-04-2003, 11:35 AM
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OMT, He also admitted he did not use petroleum jelly on the seal. I installed this later seal before I heard of people having trouble with them. I use a lot of petroleum jelly on the seal to lubricate it until the engine is run and oils it. He also admitted that the rope seal was burnt from no lub. All that I know, mine does not leak.
I would recommend the BOP seal for anyone that don't have a seal packing tool, and/or can't follow the factory manual directions. Someday I may even try one myself. I also picked up all the older rope seals that I could find. Have several years worth for future use. |
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#11
09-04-2003, 11:52 AM
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Yep...I did forget to specifically put grease on the seal the first time out. But when I took it apart, there was absolutley no damage on the seal from that..or any other damage either. I think there was enough oil on the journal to lube it up so it didn't burn. The rope seals were soaked in oil before installing though. Anyway...after taking all the measurments, I'm convinced it was that that was the problem, in my case anyway.
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#12
09-04-2003, 04:41 PM
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Even though I dont have the proper tool to pack the seal, I did use a very large socket to pack the seal into the groove(SP?). It was the cap that I packed it into then I fished it around the crank into the upper block portion. I will also pack the cap as well. And I have followed the book so far.
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#13
09-04-2003, 07:03 PM
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Medic, Did you cut the four 3/8th long pieces and pack them into the block side? Two on each side. That's the whole trick to making it seal.That is where you use the packing tool.
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#14
09-04-2003, 07:26 PM
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It will never seal by just laying the rope seal in each side and torking down the main cap. By adding the four (two to each side) 3/8th pieces that you cut from the seal and using the packing tool to drive them into the block is what makes it seal. The seal is forced into the block and when cap is installed it will swell and put pressure on the entire seal all 360 degrees around.
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#15
09-04-2003, 08:48 PM
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Floyd, I dont quite understand what you mean. The pontiac book said to use the cap to compress the seal then carefully take it out then slide it around the crank. I am doing this while the crank is still in the motor. So I dont really know what or where the 4 cut peices you describe go to. Could you explane a little more please. I dont really want to take the crank out but i will if need be to make sure it does not leak.
Robert |
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#16
09-04-2003, 10:26 PM
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medic - The procedure Floyd referred to was the Pontiac field repair procedure. It turns out that this is the only way to get the rope seal to seal well. I don't know why they never updated the service manuals.
http://www.jimspontiac.homestead.com/Index.html
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#17
09-10-2003, 07:34 PM
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If you guy get a minute can you check out my post? I have the BOP seal installed, but I don't think its going to hold oil. The cap side doesn't seem to put much pressure on the crank. I didn't even need to file it down. No what?
Here is the link to the other post. BOP seal install 1968 GTO Convertible (currently my resto project) 1978 Gold Edition Trans am 1979 10th aniversary T/A 1980 Pace Car Trans am
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 68 GTO 4-spd Convertible 78 S/E Trans am L78, WS6 Auto 78 S/E Trans am W72, WS6 Auto 79 10th aniv W72 Trans am 80 Indy pace car Trans am 89 Trans am GTA |
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#18
09-10-2003, 08:12 PM
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That is an issue you should discuss directly with BOP.
http://www.jimspontiac.homestead.com/Index.html
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#19
09-13-2003, 12:15 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I have the newer type rope seal in my 462 (going on four years) and no leaks. The key to no leaks is to pack the SEAL PER FACTORY SHOP MANUAL INSTRUCTONS. Just laying it in and installing the cap won't cut it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Mine is going on 2 yrs. No leaks. Have done many in the shop when I was a auto tech by trade, however, I am using the old type rope seal on mine. But I have a BOP ready to install if it should someday start leaking badly. I am not looking forward to that day, puuling motor to put seal in.  Can you hear me now?
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https://www.flickr.com/photos/197745168@N07/ "Of all ignorance, the ignorance of the educated is the most dangerous. Not only are educated people likely to have more influence, they are the last people to suspect that they don’t know what they are talking about."Thomas Sowell |
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#20
09-15-2003, 12:39 PM
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Floyd,
I would gladly purchase an NOS Rope Seal for a Pontiac 400 if you decide to sell them...Robert ([email protected]) |
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