[Lloyd-TX]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brian Baker:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lloyd-TX:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brian Baker:
There is no "new" Butler iron block that I'm aware of, but I believe Butler still has a stash of IA-I blocks. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Brian:

I've spoken with Jim on several occasions concerning their new aluminum AND iron blocks. Three iron blocks HAVE been cast, but they want to finish R&D and testing on the aluminum block before releasing the iron blocks for sale.

My engine builder believes that an iron block is better suited for my purposes.

I hate to step on any toes, but Jim has told me that the alloy in their iron block is FAR superior to the IA2 alloy and that each Butler iron block will be subjected to a "seasoning" process prior to shipping. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is that so? Haven't heard Butler advertising about any new iron block coming out, just the aluminum.

Seems awful peculiar that the only block in town was the Indian Adventures block, before Bob & Frank purchased the rights to that block from Dick. Now there are suddenly other new blocks coming out of the woodwork (with the KRE block I saw at VMP looking like a dead ringer for the IA-II block).

Stepping on toes indeed. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Finally found a couple of notes from my last conversation with Jim Butler.

What Jim told me was that the company casting ALL of their new products - iron and aluminum blocks, RP cylinder heads and the RA IV intake - is a small, family owned foundry. Sorry, but I can't find the name. The son runs day-to-day operations, but the father is still involved. They have some VERY dedicated emplyees and have been extremely helpful throughout.

The cast-iron alloy which Jim mentioned to me - in his words - "a compacted graphite iron alloy".

Further thoughts and comments?

[TTS]

76? David, how old were you in 76? I didn't think you had that many more miles than me and I was 7!

[Lloyd-TX]

Oh - Jim also mentioned that it's a marketing deal to release the iron block sometime after the aluminum block. Gotta recoup some of their development costs on the alloy deal before releasing the less expensive iron piece!

[Rob]

Sounds like JBP has a plan. Didn't mean to hammer you so hard on the alloy deal.

I'm looking forward to seeing all these new Pontiac parts available.

-Rob

[sdbob]

Technology is amazing. I'll just listen and learn. My father always believed in doing things as best as you can.Thanks you guys for doing things correctly. Another Italian here.

[Brian Baker]

Wish I could say more, but I can't, I more or less made a promise.

I will say this, however:

If there are any aluminum blocks available from Butler in the future, I'll be surprised.

If there are any iron blocks available from Butler, without "assistance" from a competitor, I'll be amazed.

[Lloyd-TX]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rob:
Sounds like JBP has a plan. Didn't mean to hammer you so hard on the alloy deal.

I'm looking forward to seeing all these new Pontiac parts available.

-Rob <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rob, I didn't take it as a "hammering" anyway, LOL!

I'm with you on all the new pieces coming out as well!

Has anyone ever heard of "compacted graphite cast iron"? Just curious if this is something new and great, or marketing hype!

[Ron]

Prepare yourself for amazement Brian!

[Big Injun]

Well, as I have come to experience, everyone looks to better the other guy by improving upon each others designs. Call it copying if you want, but it is not. When Dick & Tom (IA) first had plans drawn up, they were derived from a GM blueprint. They paid for the use of the GM blueprint but no royalty to GM on Chief Many Horses block, why? It is materially changed from the original. It is a different block. Each block that is being manufactured is a change from the original Pontiac block, not a copy.

Butler’s aluminum block is significantly different from any factory produced cast iron (or aluminum) block. Not a factory piece, not an IA piece...a Butler piece. I suspect that KRE’s block will again have some uniqueness making it a KRE piece.

Pontiac itself even copied the Ford tunnel port head in designing the RA V head. George DeLorean bolted a Ford head to a Pontiac block and the rest is history.

Think about what goes on over in the Chevy/Mopar/Ford world concerning aftermarket products? Same father, different mother or visa versa. LOL Did one think that because the Pontiac market is smaller that there would never be similar product produced with material differences dedicated to the same end?

It seams that a lot of stones are being thrown at manufacturers with similar product in the pipeline. Why? Perhaps because of promises made by another party during “a sale” that more than likely could have been rebutted with further due diligence by a buyer. Praise those willing to put it on the line to deliver new product to the Pontiac market...more is better!

[Lloyd-TX]

Well said, Dave!

[David Holmberg]

Big Dave, You're the man!

TTS, I was 14 in 76.

Brians always amazed...

[Brian Baker]

It's not the product or its differences at issue, it's how the product was obtained/derived. I don't think I've thrown any stones. That's my point and I'm sticking to it.

[Big Injun]

Brian,

Are you talking industrial espionage here? Crossing state lines...Better call in the FBI. This board is big, but I doubt it or the members has any judicial power. LOL

I am speaking in general about "all" of the experts on the board who know it all and who most likely are not in the market for much of the new product being offered.

PS: Ron, are you posting in the wrong thread again!

[Ron]

OOPs!

[Brian Baker]

LOL! No, nothing like that, Dave.

As for your second paragraph, yes, there has been and always seems there will be "armchair quarterbacks" that piss and moan about product, when in reality they themselves will never be in the market for it.

As for Ron, well... ...let's just say he's so excited with anticipation over going to Norwalk this year that it's clouding his mind a bit.

[Ron]

You bet I'm excited about Norwalk. If it were to be held tomorrow it would not be soon enough for me. Heck I just raced on Saturday and already miss the smell of race gas and burning rubber!!!

[Bob Rutledge]

Mmmmmmmmm, burning rubber