[Bull]

How many of you guys are using headers on your street cars/drivers? I have never installed headers on any of my cars because they are drivers and not racers, and I have always heard about how headers leak like crazy compared to manifolds, are hard to install, make plug changes a nightmare, reduce ground clearance etc. Is that all true, or a bit of an exaggeration. Since one of my cars needs a whole new exhaust now, I'm thinking about my options.

[Bull]

How many of you guys are using headers on your street cars/drivers? I have never installed headers on any of my cars because they are drivers and not racers, and I have always heard about how headers leak like crazy compared to manifolds, are hard to install, make plug changes a nightmare, reduce ground clearance etc. Is that all true, or a bit of an exaggeration. Since one of my cars needs a whole new exhaust now, I'm thinking about my options.

[STXJudge]

I use headers on my daily driver. Use a quality header, with a thick flange and leaking shouldn't be an issue. If you've never done it before, it can be a huge hassle to install them, mostly the drivers side. Just stay patient and you'll get it. Any plug changing issues you would have heard about probably referred to the 3rd gen Firebird issues, I think it was. I may be wrong about the type, but the plugs were located underneath the exhaust ports, so it made it complicated. But on a traditional Pontiac, you won't ever have a problem with the plugs running headers.

[Formulafr]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by STXJudge:
Use a quality header, with a thick flange and leaking shouldn't be an issue. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ok, but what are the quality headers? Hooker, Dynomax, Edelbrock, Summit, flowtech, others...?

[69GPModJ]

I've got Hooker Super Comps on my car (69 Grand Prix), which has e-heads and is driven regularly on the street. So far, they *have* leaked and I've not been able to correct the problem completely. I first tried copper gaskets but they leaked. I couldn't get the gasket relief to line up with the "lip" welded onto the header flange.

The next time I tried a high quality header gasket with some high temp sealer. After about 2,000 miles, the gasket is leaking really good. I have tightened the header bolts a couple of times after they were first installed but apparently I should have tightened them again. So, I'm re-installing a header gasket this weekend.

Regarding plug changes, that hasn't been a problem. It's a bit tight on a couple of the plugs but really isn't a problem. Because of the headers I *do* have a problem trying to get a compression tester screwed in there though.

Regarding fit, I was told Hookers weren't too bad but I've got 2" primaries & 3.5" collectors and fitting them was a bugger. They would not fit with a stock starter and I had to go with a mini-starter.

I had Doug's Headers on a previous engine and that set had 1 & 5/8" primaries with 2.5" collectors. There were no major fitting problems with that set. I think that partly had to do with the fact the primaries were smaller but I'm told Dougs fit well compared to other brands.

BTW, fitting headers on a Grand Prix is generally a pain, as the engine is set back & down in relationship GTOs and other A bodies.

[Goatracer1]

There is a company right there in Mass that makes excellant headers. It's Tubular Automotive in Rockland. You may not have heard of them but I have been using their headers since the 1960's.
What ever brand you buy have them coated since it will extend their life.
Copper header gaskets are too hard to compress well. They dont burn out but they do tend to leak. I have had good luck with putting a light coating of high temperature silicone sealer on both sides of regular composition gaskets, tighten them well and letting the sealer dry over night before starting the engine.

[69GPModJ]

I had a local company alter my headers for more ground clearance and they installed a custom "X" crossover. While doing that they did the very thing you recommended--high temp silicone on both sides, then let set 24 hrs.

In fact, the guys who run the shop race circle track and say they don't even use gaskets--just the sealer. Different story on the street though, where there are many more heat cycles.

[68GTOConv]

I've had both new and old cars, with a mixture of "with headers" and "without headers" on both. Headers are generally more trouble than the factory exhaust manifolds ... but there is one big problem with not having them &gt;&gt;

Answering the "why don't you have headers" question at the car shows!

Mike M

[RPM]

Headers make more of a difference in terms of power as HP increases. If you have a stock or close to stock engine why not install HO/RA manifolds?

[bigcountry]

Some of the best headers out there for Pontiacs are Doug's- a little expensive, but well worth the price.

[6D6GOAT]

if ground clearance is an issue go with dougs headers. thats what i went with but they still leak for me at the flanges (the center ports) im so sick of the leaks that i ordered some ramair exhaust manifolds from ramairrestoration.com and plan to install them this weekend.

ps. my dougs headers will be on Ebay in a week or so. 66-67 A body

[J_JAMNIK]

I have Flow Tech headers on a 68 Bonneville. They are a pain to install, but worth it. The only plroblm I have run into is the passenger side rides a little close to the ground. Only the SBC engines had the spark plug issues with burning wires and dificult plug instalation. I have taken these headers off about once a year for engine swaps, head swaps, etc. The first time install is the worst(about 5 hours), but now it takes only 2(with three diferent length 7/16" wrenches)!

[EnergyFX]

DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT use paper gaskets!!! I've been running fel-pro metal impregnated gaskets for a LONG time now and they have yet to blow out on me.

I always trim the excess unneeded material off my gaskets and trim off the area below all the bolt holes so that the header can be loosely bolted on and then the gasket slid down into place. This also eases changing the gasket out when needed.

This is the excess material I am referring to:
=O===OO===O=
trim the gaskets so that you have 3 seperate pieces for each gasket, like such:
=O= =OO= =O=

This little trick has made installation so much easier for me over the years. If you absolutely must use paper gaskets then double up on the gasket, in other words use 4 gaskets total. Trim them the same way as I described above.

[69GPModJ]

Hmmm... I just had one of those metal impregnated gaskets go on me. The metal was still there but all the gasket material had been blown / burnt away, leaving a gap and a leak.

I've replaced the blown gasket with an ordinary one to see if it'll live.

[Tim Corcoran]

I would say the answer to your question lies in how you use your car and how much you like to wrench. If the car has AC and you drive it daily or frequently I would say it's a waste of time. If the car is a week end pleasure car and you are serious about improving performance then maybe it would be worth it for you. If you do decide to go with headers you should machine the header flange surface flat prior to installation. Those welded areas at the ports is why headers leak. If you do that, and install Felpro blue P/N 1424 header gaskets you WILL NOT have leaks. No goop or sealent is necessary if you machine the flange flat. The other two negative areas of using headers are under hood temperatures and ground clearance. Having the headers coated is a good way to lower under hood temperatures with headers. It's no fun to make everyone get out of the car to go over a speed bump. As far as ground clearance you need to get a good quality proper fitting header. Most headers will require denting in certain areas of the tubes to clear things like oil filters, starters, the frame etc. Some times the factory starter will not fit with certain headers on certain model cars which would require the use of an aftermarket mini starter. Everyting is a trade off so you need to weigh it out for your use. I am using the HO manifolds in my mid 13 second, AC PS/PB 67 LeMans driver.

Tim C

[unclescratch]

If you are not at least a semi-serious wrench turner, you should probably stay away from tubular headers, as they can test your fortitude to work on your car. Bending a few small wrenches helps to get at the bolts, then keep them as your 'special tools'. I have had excellent results, NO LEAKS EVER, using metal impregnated gaskets, chasing the treaded holes in the heads and cleaning with carb cleaner/air before installing the CLEAN bolts with a little blue loctite. Never had to re-torque them either. The Hooker competition headers (huecho in Mexico) 1st set had a "HOLE" from the factory where the tube bends sharply to the rear on #5 cylinder. The 2nd set (which I used) had CRAPPY port shape, I watched to match the head ports to this. When I freshen the motor I just take off the whole front clip to remove/install the headers. MUCH EASIER! For me, working with headers also allows me to pass on the expense of bending pipe at the muffler shop. I just run straight 2-1/2" pipe back from the collectors to the mufflers in front of the rear axle with turndowns. Ground clearence is less, watch how/where you drive, and don't load down the vehicle with all those free-loading riders. (Extra weight slows the car down!) One hot chick up front should do it The louder exhaust is not intolerable (these are HOT RODS, aren't they?) And I sure would not wrap that high heat ace bandage on 'em either. Do believe that fatigues the metal and destroys it on a street car. If you have the funds, coating is probably a good deal. The factory ram air manifolds would be and EASY second choice IMHO.

[71Firebird]

Do factory ram air manifolds line up with standard original manifolds? or do you still need to have some section fabricated?....I have a stock 350 that will be getting some bolt on hp this summer hopefully...lol..and wondering about ram air straight replacement instead of headers...
Thanks,
Steve

[6D6GOAT]

i just installed some ram air exhaust headers on my car (in the rain ) they bolted right up. i did have to jack the motor up each side and it was a tight fit but they made there way in there. the guys at ram air restorations did a good job cleaning them up. the exhaust ports were large, i had to actually trim my gaskets a little to match the larger size of the exhaust ports. the exhaust collectors are a little bigger than the stock versions too. i have yet to give it a test drive with them. im curious if my a s s dyno can tell a difference.