[bmpmdf]

On the Distributor in back part, if I remember right, there was a fear of water drowning problems. Also since the chassis required the rear sump, it was easier to have the distributor at the back of the engine to drive the oil pump. They never imagined the kind of pressures the modern race stuff puts on the cam as far as twist when the oil pump is also driven at the other end of the cam. Todays spring pressures were unheard of then, as the most radical cams and valvetrain was not much more than a now typical flat tappet cam set up. Do you realize the Pontiac V8 design has been in use 50 years this fall? That is an achievement !!! And just think, chevy borrowed many ideas from it to get their small block in production. So hats off to the Pontiac engineers of 50 years ago.

[bmpmdf]

One point I forgot to mention. The GM board decided to keep the chevy engine because it was in production in nearly every country GM sold vehicals, Mexico was also the cheapest labor cost. Pontiac did not have engine plants all over the world or in Mexico.

[rpmalone]

Along with the many great design ideas Pontiac had there are a couple elements that seem like they could have been improved;

The water passage between the back of the timing cover and the front of the intake manifold. Pulling the intake towards the timing cover with that slender bolt can alter the alignment of the ports in the heads to the intake. Although sawing off the front of the intake solves this and allows for a dry intake swap...I would have prefered a short section of hose ala Olds or BBC.

Non adjustable valve train - decking the block or shaving the heads can really foul this up if you're sticking with the factory system. I guess it's easy enough to convert the heads to an adjustable system, just kind of a puzzlement why the non-adjustable design was held to.

Out of curiosity, which other major Engine designs used a non-adjustable valve train? Was it more economical to build on the assembly line? Was it less prone to problems for the duration of the warranty?

[mikeb]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by silver:
Out of curiosity, which other major Engine designs used a non-adjustable valve train? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Two that come to my mind are the oldsmobile and ford windsors.

[azbirds]

I think Buick also was non-adjustable. I'm suprised that no one mentioned that chevy claims they are the first to introduce reverse-flow cooling(the LT1)&gt; Pontiac had this idea covered in 1955, but the tubes in the heads would clog up creating warranty problems. Was this becouse people were neglecting the cooling systems. Has anyone tried to copy this design on a 400 or 455 and document the differeces in power??

[RAJNWDY]

you want bashing for the other engines too? AMC, like Pontiac and the small block Chevy, Outside block size stayed the same but bore and stroke changes for more cubes.
BUICK, Differant engines bolted up to same tran's bolt pattern... BOP

Unlike Ford, Small block, small block trans, Big Block, Big block trans, FE engine? Didn't match anything but FE. 3 differant 351's C, M, W. No interchange: but 289, 302's probably the best engines Ford made, besides the straight 6 300.

I HAVE A SAYING: IF YOUR BEHIND IT AND YOU CAN SMELL IT, 9 TIMES OUT OF 10 IT'S A FORD!!!

Dodge, Chrysler, Plymouth: Small blocks, Big blocks, Wedge, Hemi....nothing more need's said here.

I think that if the aftermarket providers would have got on the band wagon and made more Pontiac HP parts then the chevy's way back then. The Pontiac engine might have been around a lot longer. But, you have to remember that when the GTO's first came out everyone had to put HP stuff in just to stay with them. That's why you go into a parts store today and see Ford and Chevy HP parts. They are still trying to keep up!! But seriously weight means HP, which mean's fuel consumption and with that, GM went with the easier engine to mass produce and change with the times. They are also a lot lighter (HP per Pound) then the Heavier Pontiac mill. Just remember that Pontiac came up with a lot of the Ideas that are still in use today on internal combustion engines.

AMC CU IN up to 401
CHEVY CU IN 265-400
PONTIAC CU IN well you know!!!

[pontiac_bashee]

All I know is back in 1973 I wish I had the pictures of the faces of the two friends of mine that had chevys after a little high speed race on the way home one night after a football game. It seems that my buddy with his 1969 Chevelle SS 396 opened up my hood at half time and went in and pulled a spark plug wire. They figured that on the way home they would challenge me on the highway and make my car look bad. The joke was on them when my 1968 400 GTO blew their doors off. I noticed the miss but it a not uncommon for me that after sometime of slow running the spark plugs got funky. They tried to pass me on a long stretch of highway up here in Wisconsin and never even got to my doors before I pulled away. IF I ONLY HAD A PICTURE. By the way these devoted Chevy fans didn’t have the kauhunas to tell me about the wire pull but a nice freshman was happy to let me know that he was standing right there when they did it. Needless to say that gave me months of harassment time with them.

I got to them again a couple of years later at a local 1/8th mile drag strip. I was quicker than their lovely 1969 SS Camaro and Chevelle even though the wheel hop on my car was terrible. The guy in the timing tower said it hopped so hard that he could see the seal on the trunk to body actually separate. I took it upon myself to take their best times and mine and make a nice wall plaque. Over the years I have seen it removed from my wall in my computer room after they stop over.

Any way you look at Pontiac was a TOP player in the performance world and can and could keep up with anything. When I saw the front end of a 1968 GTO I was for ever changed and I wish I still had my 69 Judge Jacket but I wore it to rags many a year ago.

[PunchT37]

Almost ALL pushrod engines are non-adjustable
today. Tried to adjust a newer big block GM?
How bout a GEN3[5.7.4.8,5.3,6.0,etc],3.1,3.8
any later model mopar or Ford? They`re easier in the field just to slap back together.<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by silver:
Along with the many great design ideas Pontiac had there are a couple elements that seem like they could have been improved;

The water passage between the back of the timing cover and the front of the intake manifold. Pulling the intake towards the timing cover with that slender bolt can alter the alignment of the ports in the heads to the intake. Although sawing off the front of the intake solves this and allows for a dry intake swap...I would have prefered a short section of hose ala Olds or BBC.

Non adjustable valve train - decking the block or shaving the heads can really foul this up if you're sticking with the factory system. I guess it's easy enough to convert the heads to an adjustable system, just kind of a puzzlement why the non-adjustable design was held to.

Out of curiosity, which other major Engine designs used a non-adjustable valve train? Was it more economical to build on the assembly line? Was it less prone to problems for the duration of the warranty? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Steve Barcak]

Most everything has been mentioned but, there are still more. Tom mentioned about not having to pull the dist to do an intake swap but, it is even better than that. You can pull both heads, change rod bearings or more and not have to touch the dist/mag. Having the starter on the left has proven to be an advantage as some chebs have switched to a left side starter for an oil pan kickout on the right side. What about the rocker baffles? I have seen them in the Bill Mitchell catalog for chebs as a "new idea"!.
I like the motor mounts, the Pontiacs have the nut welded on, the cheb guys have the fuel pump in the way and have to hold a nut while they turn the bolt. There are so many little things like that that make a Pontiac more pleasurable to work on.
As to Pontiac engine production and the corporate thing. Believe it or not, it actually started in 1959! That is the last year that GMC trucks with the V-8 option used Pontiac power. I read that, though GMC customers were happy with Pontiac touque under their truck hoods, the Pontiac engine plant wasn't able to keep up with production for both cars and trucks so they dropped GMC and let cheb use their V-8s. Imagine how many HD 4bolt truck blocks and forged cranks and rods there would be today if Pontiac still supplied engines for GMC!
Steve www.pontiacheaven.org

[Tom Vaught]

Quote:

"Having the starter on the left has proven to be an advantage as some chebs have switched to a left side starter for an oil pan kickout on the right side."

Thanks Steve! I knew about the left starter/ right oil pan kickout as the aluminum pan from the Hamberger people I have is built with the kick-out and does a great job.

The round holes in the block deck surface make it very easy to make a "Dry Deck" engine with normal cast iron
plugs.

You can feed water externally into the block easily if
you weld a fitting into each of the core plugs in the three locations on the late blocks and make a water manifold.

The front of the Pontiac block is flat in the timing cover area which makes easy mounting of a front engine plate, external water pump, dry sump, and/or a front
mounted distributor (like the BOP unit).

Tom V.

[bmpmdf]

Silver, are you serious about wishing Pontiac engines had the hose to water pump idea? Have you had to change that pos hose on side of the road? I did on my Pro Street Monza and an Olds Cutlass i had years ago. I wouldn't like a Pontiac engine near as much if it had that @#$^&* hose !!! Just my opinion, purely based on a couple bad timing experiences with engines with that hose. Also the non adjustible valvetrain is a faster production line only idea. Took less time to get an engine out that way.