[dammen8]

Yes Lynn I am another person that is glad to see you posting on here, I will check the stock super stock forums just to see your posts but it seems that there is not alot of activity over there so I do not check it often, but anyway I do very much enjoy reading your opinions and views on stuff....Just like Tom V. Pontiac Dude and many many others on this board....

Chad

[bmpmdf]

Lynn, You guys in the Stock/ Super Stock classes have alway impressed me with the level of dedication it takes. Tight rules is way harder to run quick than bracket racing, even though many compare Stock and Super Stock classes to high level bracket racing. Gald to see you out there and posting here too.

[slowbird]

Are there going to be any changes made to the heads if so what? What sizes are offered on the combustion chamber? What is the stock intake runner cc? If you have a head that flows 435cfm now could you post the entire flow sheet. Will you be offer the round port, d-port and the raised exhaust ports like DCI was going to?

[slowbird]

I forgot one other question, will you sell them bare? I know DCI would only offer them complete.

[NHRASuperStock455SD]

Thanks guys! Hey Skip, long time no talk! Work on any tigers lately, lol!

Here is an article on cylinder head flow. In engineering it is called "Mach". Or the speed of sound calculations.

Mach discussion

The things we like in stock and super stock is that are getting good power from the OEM stuff with rules. Of course NHRA gives all the advantages to the SBC guys, so we have to spend more and work harder just to stay even. The Pontiac guys are always a step ahead because they have to be.

It is a nice challenge for guys that like to work with the original stuff. We are approaching 600HP with a 400 6X motor with the stock compression ratio bored .060 and 3.785 stroke.

That is what makes it fun for us. Approaching 600HP with a 6X motor with stock runner volumes is killer. We have a lot of fun.

[Skip Fix]

Lynn how are those new valve springs you've been using working?

[Robert C.]

Quote: (Are there going to be any changes made to the heads if so what? What sizes are offered on the combustion chamber? What is the stock intake runner cc? If you have a head that flows 435cfm now could you post the entire flow sheet? Will you be offer the round port, d-port and the raised exhaust ports like DCI was going to?)

1. Yes, many
2. Still in planning. 48 cc plus or minus
3. Will post later
4. In a few days.
5. Round and the D ports are on the way.
6. Yes to the raised ports.
7. Naked,if you like.

Let us just get a breath of fresh air and after the PRI show we will post what is happening.

[NHRASuperStock455SD]

Skip,

The valve springs are awesome, the only trouble is that with 430 lbs of seat pressure, it tends to play havoc on the seats.

With the new super stock open rule for valve seat angles, the regular Pontiacs are going to gain more than the 455SD as we had 45 degree seats already.

Now we are all the way out to 55 degrees which scares me to death on the valve springs. This will make the valve spring issue something to deal with.

If I hold the Super Duty to 7000 in second gear it runs a tenth faster.

For years we thought it was the reciprocating weight and the head flow limiting us. That is all true, but valve springs helped a bunch.

Stacy's SS 6X motor held peak HP to 7200. It is what we refer to instead of the "HP Peak", the "HP Plateau"! It is one of those awesome things that makes the Pontiacs run so good.

Skip are you going to Montgomery next week end?
If everything comes into place, and we can hook the Sunbird up, who knows what might happen? it calculated .19 faster than our test track where it ran a 10.05 @ 131.67

Lynn

[Skip Fix]

Lynn have you tried those springs on any E heads? I guess 7000 rpm on a 455 goes against some Pontiac theories.

[Mo]

Just read this post. Hhmmmmmm. Didn't a MRE powered car get beat by Rex at the Fall Nationals in Sept at ATCO? I may be wrong, but maybe thats why Joe is so sore at Rex's comments .

[NHRASuperStock455SD]

Skip,

Valve bounce is the problem. We first encounted this when we tried to put Stainless Valves in our tunnel port motor. This motor we shifted in the A/MP car at 9000 RPM. It went 9.41 @ 147mph in 1982 and weighed almost 3500lbs.

We put that motor in a SuperComp car 20 years later, and put stainless valves in it. The RPM's dropped to 6300, and the BSFC went off the map just like all of our other Pontiac motors.

The heavy valves cause valve bounce particularly with a 1.8 rocker and the agressive camlobes we are running.

Don Kennedy and I both are the only 455's in Super Stock left. We both go to 7000k. Our peak HP is about 6300-6400. I havent convinced Don to go with the big springs yet, but I think he will pick up if he does.

I know these springs will work with the E-heads. Of course it all depends on what kind of rocker and cam you are running. However, there is a reason Warren Johnson and most ProStockers, and all the SS/AA Hemi guys are running these springs. Not only valve bounce, they limit spring harmonics from waffling the spring so hard.

When they first came out they cost $1000 with all the keeper and titanium retainers. Now other manufacturers have gotten into the deal and the price is down to about $500.

At 2.100 installed height, the are about 430lbs and over 1000lbs open. (.800 lift)

Lynn

[Tom Vaught]

Lynn,

Glad to have you posting again.

Are the springs you are referring to the "Beehive"
type springs?

Agree with your comment on the need for really good valves with the high rpm deal too.

We used titanium valves in all of the Ford stuff
I was working with in Super Street with blowers/
Turbos and routinely went 9K plus.

Tom V.

[Steve C.]

You might consider cryogenic-treatment for the valvesprings. I have seen it written about reports of cryogenically-treated engine parts increasing in life by 100% to 400% are not uncommon. If so the intervals between replacement on those expensive springs could be increased thus saving money.

Also there is a really nice article in the Feb Circle Track magazine about Comps Beehive valvesprings.

[Tom Vaught]

I will be hanging around the TURBONETICS booth most of Thursday afternoon and Friday all day
if you need to talk to me.

Tom V.

Other possibilities would be the All-Pontiac area
or Vortech area.

[NHRASuperStock455SD]

Steve, Tom,

The springs we tried were two different versions. The first version was same installed and open pressure. We got 6500 RPM out of the SS-6X-400 motor before significant increases in the BSFC. We were estatic!

However, after one dyno pull the marked springs had rotated all over the place. Yeah they rotate, but one pull? So we thought maybe harmonics were at play.

So we installed the other springs which have a very unique type of plating.

7200, and they never quit.

The guy who owns this company imports them just like all the other cam companies from the Netherlands somewhere. It is the technology on how they plate and polish.

After talking with him, I found out he is one of the original engineers from Pontiac Motors. He worked in Valve train and had all the access to that wonderful technology. He worked on all the hypo Pontiac stuff in the early 70's. Of course I am sure production didnt incorporate all the knowledge. But, knowing this guy is familier with Pontiacs helps.

He is trying to convince me to go to 60MM cams, and 1inch lift lobes like the HEMI guys are doing.

As soon as I have enough people to go in with me, we might do it. I have to do 5 blanks.

Lynn

[Brian Baker]

Scott Misus has expressed an interest in the 1" lifter bore like the Hemi's use, primarily I suppose for the availability of cheaper roller lifters of the Hemi for use in his blown nitro' Pontiac project. I don't know squat about Hemi's, but I would imagine the lifter design is way different, so how would that effect valvetrain oiling issues?

[johnta1]

I thought he was talking about 1" lobes on the cam?

[NHRASuperStock455SD]

I probably didnt explain that too well about the "1 inch lobes". This probably will translate to a .560 lobe and a 1.85 rocker, giving us 1.00 inch total lift with .036 lash.

We havent worked it all out yet, but we need to study the valve train dynamics first with the new rules NHRA keeps throwing at us.

The Chrysler lifter is a problem for a Pontiac due to a larger diameter. We simply dont have enough meat on the lifter bores for that conversion.

We cannot run aftermarket blocks, as they do not have a part number. I got the OK from Dick Duclow to pursue Pontiac Racing about a part number, but Gary Penn absolutely refused. He stated "we arent in the business of handing out part numbers".

So, I went to NHRA for approval, and they are very cold about the idea.

So now I am running 455SD blocks, and you know how cheap those are :-(. If anyone has any that need sleeves let me know. We arent afraid of sleeving all 8.

Lynn

[Brian Baker]

Just spoke with Bob C. on his cell phone from the PRI show. He said there's very little Pontiac stuff there (big surprise ). He also said they were looking for the new Mongo bobblehead doll, but couldn't find any.

Ray Cox is there too, and he wanted Pontiacdude to know that he took Bob and Frank out to dinner last night, and it wasn't a Steak & Shake.

[Robert C.]

Brain,

Please call Ray on his cell and tell him to By us dinner. He did not take us out. We took Him.

Yes that is right. 1 percent is pontiac. And we need to change that. And the only way is to build this hobby in to an Industry. Jim just showed up too.

Got to go.