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PONTIAC DUDE · 02-16-2005, 09:19 AM

Ray called. Wanted to know

if I will have them on my car for Norwalk.

Ya have my # stamped on a set.

Half-Inch Stud · 02-16-2005, 09:41 AM

Wow...!
Is indelible history being made to the tune of 2HP/cubic inch>>?

HIS

Junkyard Dog · 02-16-2005, 10:33 AM

HPP, in the most recent issue, said there was a "street/race" version. People are going to run these on the street?

bmpmdf · 02-16-2005, 11:13 AM

JYD;

Besides,here in St. Louis area, we have guys running high 7's with licensed cars. Very limited street driving, but they make laps on the cruise scene in Fenton and St.Charles, and the very limited cruising in South County now. Each "lap" is about 5 - 7 miles.I think the Tiger heads in a full body Pontiac with a 2 stage nos or a turbo or blower would put a guy in the hunt against the quickest guys here. Make them drive it for about 20 miles first then get 'em! 2 outta 3 (they won't have fuel left with their 8 gallon tanks).

Brian Baker · 02-16-2005, 01:39 PM

I attended yesterday's session, and got a first hand look at the heads. They were not ported, they were as cast just like Bob has claimed. In all, 21 pulls were made. No major issues were encountered and the heads performed well. The very minor issues involved an errant starter motor, and a 1250 Dominator from AED that needed some minor tweaking to get it to idle. A few in attendance commented that 21 pulls was ALOT (since this was my first time at a dyno session, I didn't know any better)...yet the IA-II block (with cast crank) and the heads performed without any issues.

Testing was done essentially using Bob's same combo that made 718-HP...essentially a head swap. With same cam, headers, intake, and carb...the Tiger heads made 824-HP as opposed to 718-HP with the 340+ cfm E-heads.

An additional 13-HP was found by switching to a 1250 Dominator prepped by AED. After changing idle air bleeds, it settled in with a nice idle, and sounded healthier than with Bob's carb. It also evened out the exhaust temps from cylinder to cylinder and the average HP turned out better as well. Good carb swap!

An additional 3-HP was found with a few well placed bags of ice and leaving the shop door open.

After several pulls, 34 degrees was determined to be optimal for the purposes of the test. Trying 36 was discussed, but good numbers were being achieved at 34 and the purpose of the test was not to set the world on fire, but rather to test the durability of the heads. Additionally, the BSFC was consistently in the low-mid .4's...jetting to get them into the upper .3's was discussed, but again, it was decided to play it safe with the jetting, rather than trying to set the world on fire and risk hurting the heads or engine. Even still, 800+ HP from a 13.1 CR Pontiac running a little on the rich side (and making it under 6500 rpm), ain't too shabby.

Thanks for having me along, Bob...it was a blast.

John Langer · 02-16-2005, 01:41 PM

2hp per cube... Dont sell the farm yet. I would have thought that they would have made around 1000hp with a head that flows over 420cfm on a 4.250 bore and at over 8500rpm. Maybe they didn't get an intake that could support the heads flow numbers.

slowbird · 02-16-2005, 01:44 PM

How did it sound? Anyone get pics of the engine?

Brian Baker · 02-16-2005, 01:49 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by John Langer:
2hp per cube... Dont sell the farm yet. I would have thought that they would have made around 1000hp with a head that flows over 420cfm on a 4.250 bore and at over 8500rpm. Maybe they didn't get an intake that could support the heads flow numbers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A modest cam...282 @ .050" on the intake side, installed at 105 int. c/l if memory serves. Net valve lift (again if memory serves) was .790".

The intake used to get these numbers was Bob's Victor, which appeared to have little more done to it than a gasket match (I was surprised to see it didn't even have a turtle in it).

Brian Baker · 02-16-2005, 01:50 PM

And John, how do you flow a head at 8500 rpm?

All pulls were made to 7200 rpm max. With the HP peak coming in much lower than this, there was no point to run it higher.

rumair · 02-16-2005, 01:56 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by John Langer:
Maybe they didn't get an intake that could support the heads flow numbers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

seems to me that bob clearly stated this would be the case for the initial tests.

John Langer · 02-16-2005, 01:59 PM

People dont use turtles any more. You dont flow a head to 8500 rpm, you put a cam in a motor that has the lift and duration to support the flow numbers. A head that flows 420 cfm at .900 lift would require a cam that has the duration that would make power over 8500 rpm.

Brian Baker · 02-16-2005, 02:02 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by John Langer:
People dont use turtles any more. You dont flow a head to 8500 rpm, you put a cam in a motor that has the lift and duration to support the flow numbers. A head that flows 420 cfm at .900 lift would require a cam that has the duration that would make power over 8500 rpm. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree, but that wasn't the purpose of this dyno test. The purpose was to check the durability of the heads, which was clearly stated prior to conducting the test.

fasteddy · 02-16-2005, 02:25 PM

"people don't use turtles anymore" I am people and I use a turtle. What's the thought on not using one --in your intake manifold?

SLOW 77 · 02-16-2005, 02:34 PM

This test was done with a Victor if I read it right. What kind of gains would be made with the new intake coming out?

PONTIAC DUDE · 02-16-2005, 03:20 PM

Why are some people making something out of nothing.

A simple head swap with the combo set up for a smaller head. And picking up over 100hp with a NON PORTED HEAD!!!!!

John I think they stated just over 400 cfm. Not your 420 cfm.

OUT of the BOX with a slight touch up of the port under the valve area that a child could accomplish.

Now that Bob has a head that will flow bigger #'s, he can now get into the rest of the parts to make the <span class="ev_code_RED">'NEW'</span> top end work.
Was really suprised to hear that another BIG change (not mentioned ) made no difference in hp numbers.

But then again it was designed for a lot bigger cam and such.

Great head for an out of the box 400cfm plus deal.
Outside the Pontiac world there is a very limited availability of aftermarket heads flowing that #, <span class="ev_code_RED">Out of the Box</span>.

And I know the quality control along with the assurance of quality will be better then the Other current head that comes in just under 350 cfm 'OUT of the Box'.

PONTIAC DUDE · 02-16-2005, 04:21 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Slow77ta:
This test was done with a Victor if I read it right. What kind of gains would be made with the new intake coming out? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Huh? Can't be answered. None are in production and no info is avaialble.
Plus there are 2 Performance intakes currently on the drawing board or in pre-production.

PONTIAC DUDE · 02-16-2005, 04:27 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fasteddy:
"people don't use turtles anymore" I am people and I use a turtle. What's the thought on not using one --in your intake manifold? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have never ported a Victor intake that required a turtle.
Usually, but not always a crutch to change the floor to equalize port flow at lower rpms or a cam that's too small to take advantage of the bigger port. All velocity is in the roof. Hence the raised runner designed heads and straight port intakes

Brian Baker · 02-16-2005, 05:13 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Slow77ta:
This test was done with a Victor if I read it right. What kind of gains would be made with the new intake coming out? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know, my crystal ball is in the shop.

Robert C. · 02-16-2005, 05:25 PM

I killed the rat. Ask Brian B. about it.

Brian Baker · 02-16-2005, 06:00 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Trans Am Bob:
I killed the rat. Ask Brian B. about it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL! Both of us are tired, Bob is terrible at directions AND driving simultaneously, and he's cussing me for being "night blind" (I can't read street signs very well at night and need new glasses). So after navigating somehow onto the Jersey turnpike, Bob decides to call Jack Gaydosh. He's in mid conversation with Jack on the speakerphone when he runs over the biggest rat I've ever seen in my life. I mean this thing could have easily eaten Gaydosh's dog. I thought it was a big possum at first, but it was a rat.

Bob breaks up in mid conversation and yells "Holy ***** did you see that rat we just hit?!" Jack must have thought "what the hell is he talking about?".

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