[TheTempest]

Just got done rebuilding the brake system on my '67 Tempest. One of my goals was to replace all the drums with new ones; the rears were a piece of cake but the fronts are more involved. To remove the front drums from the hubs, I must cut off the swags on all the wheel studs. The instructions that came with the new drums show a carbide drill bit (looks like a hole cutter) that fits closely over the stud and is used to cut off these swags. Has anybody out there done this before and how did you accomplish it? Are there alternatives to using the special cutter? When replacing the wheel studs, do they have to be reswagged with a peen punch?
any help will be appreciated....thanx

Mike

[TheTempest]

Just got done rebuilding the brake system on my '67 Tempest. One of my goals was to replace all the drums with new ones; the rears were a piece of cake but the fronts are more involved. To remove the front drums from the hubs, I must cut off the swags on all the wheel studs. The instructions that came with the new drums show a carbide drill bit (looks like a hole cutter) that fits closely over the stud and is used to cut off these swags. Has anybody out there done this before and how did you accomplish it? Are there alternatives to using the special cutter? When replacing the wheel studs, do they have to be reswagged with a peen punch?
any help will be appreciated....thanx

Mike

[Longs]

I was just reading an article about this in a recent issue of High Performance Pontiac magazine. I'm preparing to do front brakes on my 67 GTO (tired hardware, I believe) and I was looking for any tips/tricks. I'm not replacing the drums though.

I noticed that the article addressed the swags, and I don't remember them talking about a special tool to remove them. I'll check the article and post back.



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"Whoever said you can't fool all of the people all of the time was a damned fool". Vincent K. McMahon

[TheTempest]

Longs;

Thanks for the reply; beginning to wonder if I'm the only one trying to replace my front drums; suppose this is a good excuse to convert to discs. What issue of HP was this brake article in? (My subscription card is still sitting on my desk).

You didn't say whether you've done a brake job before so if some or all of this stuff you know already, forgive me:

As far as any handy helpers go, make sure you've got the special tools to do the job: spring removal/replace tool; hold down sring tool and a star wheel adjusting tool. Should be able to find them in any good autoparts store and all three shouldn't cost more than 15 to 20 bucks; I wouldn't even attempt to do the job without them. Have your Pontiac shop manual at hand; read the section before diving in. Do one side at a time so you can use the assembled side to see how it's supposed to go back together. Pack a little patience along too 'cause some of the springs can be a little onery. Buy a couple of cans of the brake cleaner/degreaser to clean out all the brake dust and crud; don't blow it off with compressed air (your lungs will thank you). Once you get the backing plate clean, apply a LIGHT film of Hi-Temp silicone grease (made especially for brake use, don't use oridinary bearing grease) on the shoe pads; the pads are stamped into the backing plate and this is what the shoes slide against as they move back and forth. Also lightly grease the star wheel threads and short end (the side that falls off when you remove the star wheel). A little swipe of grease around the self adjusting fulcrum (where the mounting pin goes through) and that should do it. Realize there is a primary and a secondary shoe; the primary shoe has the shorter lining and gets mounted to the front side. Have fun and Good luck!

Mike

[Big Injun]

Unless you really need the drums up from for factory correct appearance, convert to front discs for better stopping.

Remember, the other vehicles out on the road have newer braking sytems which allow them to stop in a shorter distance than our old Pontiacs. When they get on the binders, you will be in a panic stop! Save your old beauty and convert.

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Dave "Big Injun" Anderson
www.PontiacDragDays.com
www.PontiacEnthusiast.com

[TheTempest]

Big Injun,

Yes, you're right about the disc conversion and eventually I plan to make the conversion (I've read some of the articles here and in the mags about it and it makes good sense) but......right now I don't have the bucks or the time to do the conversion; I'd just like to get the car to a reliable and relatively safe condition so that it can be driven on a casual basis. I want to concentrate my initial rebuilding efforts on the suspension and steering followed by the engine/tranny. Bodywork and interior will come last.

[old gto]

Mudhen, when I recently had my front drums turned (for the last time, I`m told), I started looking into new drums. The cost of a disk setup is not much more than a set of new drums! I`ll run these for now, but will swap at next go-round. You may consider this as an option if your current drums will "take a turn".

[TheTempest]

old gto;

I'm pretty sure these are the original set of front drums (the car only has 104k on the odo); there's not much left of the "wear" area as far as thickness goes (I compared the new drums to my originals and I would be very surprised if they could be turned any more). If the drums are too thin, they won't dissipate the heat well enough, cause the drum to warp and generally provide poor braking. I think if I can get a grinder or cut off wheel, I'm pretty sure I can remove the stakes from the wheel studs and get the drum off the hub.....this would be an easier task to accomplish than converting to discs at this point. So far I've hit a dead end with brake shops and even my machine shop won't handle the drum removal.

[Longs]

The article, identified as "Bulletproof GTO Drum Brakes", appeared on page 43 of the December 1997 HPP magazine. The way HPP addressed the swagged studs up front was to cut the old studs off to remove the hub, then having the auto parts store press new studs in.

The article focused on using Praise Dyno Brakes high performance components, including special shoes, return springs with 50 pounds more tensile strength than stock, and replacement steel drums. Lots of good tips in the article!

Longs


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"Whoever said you can't fool all of the people all of the time was a damned fool". Vincent K. McMahon

[TheTempest]

Longs;

Thanks for finding the back issue article; I'll have to see if I can order a copy of it from their website. Don't suppose you could Xerox the article and mail it to me, I'd gladly cover any costs....let me know via e-mail if you'd care to do this. As far as cutting off the studs, it looks like that is what I'll have to do. If I can cut the studs very close to the drum I should be able to grind away any remaining swag and press out the old studs and put new ones in. Looks like you really don't need to reswag the wheel studs as it appears to be about a zero clearance fit between the hub center and the hole cut in the drum. Once the wheel is installed and the bolts torqued down I don't think there will be any problems with a loose drum.

Thanks again,
Mike

[Longs]

I sent you the article as an Adobe Acrobat file yesterday... Did you receive it?

Longs



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"Whoever said you can't fool all of the people all of the time was a damned fool". Vincent K. McMahon

[oldgoat]

Mudhen, Just my 2 cents ,but I agree with Big Injun & Old GTO go for the disk.It,s the one thing I regret not doing when I did the brake system seven years ago,by the time I purchased new brakes,hardware, and drums I was very close to the price of putting together the disk system,and I still have the stopping power of a '68 pair of front brakes. I guess at that time I was going for originality but forget that and go for the stopping power. One other thing If you have the original rally II wheels they should be code stamped JC (for drum brakes) and I think you'll need the ones with the code JA for disk brakes. Just something else to think about Good Luck whatever your decision AL

[This message has been edited by oldgoat (edited 06-08-2000).]

[TheTempest]

Longs (and all);

Thanks for scanning the article for me...it was a great help. As for back issues of HPP, these are only available back to the '98 issues. Seems the original publisher was bought out and all the previous issues prior to the new publisher are NLA.

OldGTO;

Yup, I know....problem is I've already bought all the stuff (drums; brake shoes; hardware; lines; wheel and master cylinders) and installed 90% of it. The only thing I need to do the complete the job is the R&R of the front drums.....

[Ken K]

If you are going to use drum brakes why not use finned aluminum front brake drums? The finned aluminum front brake drums have a steel lining. They were avalable on some A body cars and can be found if you know where to look.

[stuffedfrog]

Boy do I feel stupid...so back in 1967 how were the front pads replaced? All my money this year is going into engine/trans/rear, and all I wanted to do was pop the drums and replace the pads/cylinders. How was this done back in the day?

[stuffedfrog]

Wow stuffedfrog you really are a beginner (or perhaps just an idiot, or both!). To remove the drums, just remove the center bolt where the bearings are and the drum (with studs attached) comes off! Stuffedfrog, maybe you'd be better off in a different hobby...something without moving parts.

[george kujanski]

If I recall, the Chevies of the day did not have the drums as part of the front hub assy. The were a loose fit just like the rear drum/hub setup. Therefore to me it seems there would be no problem in not restaking the drum to hub after replacement.

George

[fdowdy]

Hi;

Could you send me a copy of the brake drum article? Please and thankyou.

I'm going to go the Praise route on my '64 and can use all the help I can get.

By the way, if you get a chance, stop by our Summer Show on Sunday the 20th. The information is on the club (GTO Association of Central Ohio) web site www.gtoaco.org.
I'll be the bald guy playing music.

Thanks,
Fred
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Longs:
I sent you the article as an Adobe Acrobat file yesterday... Did you receive it?

Longs



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"Whoever said you can't fool all of the people all of the time was a damned fool". Vincent K. McMahon <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[engineer]

again, the problem is one needs to look at the system today with the parts available. The front drum was held on by the knurled portion of the wheel studs. If you want to replace the drum, you can cut off all the studs with a grinder or cutoff wheel, then remove the old drum, knock out the old ground off studs and replace with new wheel studs. the problem is the original size knurled wheel studs are no longer made. The replacement stud available today has a larger diameter knurled area so the old holes in the hub are too small for the new replacement stud, so you have to drill out the hub for the larger knurled stud. then press in the new studs onto the new drum which also needs its hole enlarged for the new knurled diameter. So then the drum is again fixed onto the hub and is not removeable. but why bother? The other option is to have the old drum pressed off the hub. usually the machine shop can do this without breaking any studs, but the drum area around the studs will be messed up, but who cares, you are replacing the drum with a new one. Any broken studs, replace as above. If studs are okay, enlarge holes on new drum slightly so it fits over knurled area of studs and fits flush on hub, Put hub on spindle, adjust bearing and now drum is removable without taking off hub. If you are worried about drum coming loose, you can use those thin metal retainers that thread on studs to hold the drum in place. (forgot what the technical term is for them). Used to come on all cars from factory on rear drum assemblies, until the first brake job when they were removed and usually thrown away. Job is done safely, but not concours correct like the factory.

[troy_barker]

With all of the talk about converting to disk what are some interchangeable auto setup for a 67 GTO?