[pont406]

A buddy of mine had a problem with his TCI converter, 10" street fighter, in his BBC 70 Nova, freshly built turbo 350 tranny, front pump hub was not welded on straight, tore up 2 front pump gears (converter line up teeth sheared off) before problem was found, TCI did make good on this by sending him an "upgraded" 10 inch "Super street fighter converter with ballooning plates for NOS( as he was upgrading the car with a NOS fogger system) and with NO charge for the upgrade! like a $125 dollar difference in there prices.

[Hot Rod]

Jim,
Wayne Rogers of Rogers Automotive builds most of the Race Transmissions in Northern Virginia and only uses Coan, and that is because they always make good on there product, in fact I hear crap from Wayne about using the TCI, but as I tell him the Coan that Chris wants to build me is high dollar and the TCI has worked Flawlessly.
Like any product the one thing that always come's to mind is correct application with engine combination. I cannot tell you how many times I have personally seen where the person builds a bigger engine, installs a power adder and does nothing with the Torque Converter or Transmission and worse yet nothing with the rear end!
It's about a complete package not a piece here and there.
Lord knows I have put almost as much time and parts just to get the suspension to work with the rest of the combination, and everytime I make a change I have to adjust or tweak something else to make it all work together.
To much HP & Torque on a converter that was not designed and built for that setup will smoke it fast, especially adding a lot of NOS.

Anybody any manufacturer can build a part that does not quite meet the specific need, and yes even have a bad run on a specific product. It's how they handle the problem and how truthful the
customer is on what really happened.
I have found that when your straight up with a manufacturer they are more than willing to work with you, but when they know full well the truth is not forth coming then they will tell you to go pound sand.

Rodney

Outlaw Pontiac Racers Association
"For Those Who Live the Legend"

"WELCOME TO THE NO SPIN ZONE!"

[Ron]

How right your are Hot Rod. I too have seen this many times and in my youth made this mistake more than once. Lots of engine power but nothing to back it up. Very costly in the long run

Ron

[63Longtop]

Hot Rod, what part don't you understand, he was sold a repaired convertor with stock components. If the company would hand weld each fin as does my convertor specialist, they wouldn't be damaged. Nothing in his combination changed. When he originally ordered the convertor the sales associate said, he was running the same combo and had the appropriate convertor. They snickered at the fact that his motor only made 550 hp and boasted how they build convertors for 1000+ and this convertor would be basically bullet proof. That particular item flashed 5800 which is out of his torque band. It was returned and replaced by Coan. I have personally seen virtually every brand of convertor cut open and Coan isn't using quality products. Hey maybe the second unit they sent out was actually a used one someone else returned. I doubt it, I have seen other Coan convertors cut open, same old tech. Good Luck if you happen to purchase one!

[DAVE RIBEIRO]

Hey Hotrod + Jim,

You know convertors are like computers,with you put BS in you get BS out..Anyway,you can have
good an bad in any product,it's how ,when,where,it
gets fixed is the problem..Stand behind your product is very important in racing??? Coan makes a good product as does PTC,ATI,Dynamic,A-1,Cont.,
B+M and TCI are more for street type cars not race
cars....They are mass produce to fit a range of cars, not a special combo..I believe the person
who sold the original convertor mad a mistake....
You really need to know what you want and be able to do alot of testing...This is the only way,
because one convertor doesn't fit all.Every-combo is
different,so you need to be sure what you order or
ask for...So in many cases it's the person doesn't know and should say so?? Racers should go
with who they trust and feel comfortable with??
So it's all about choices?? But I don't think
think you should bad-mouth a company because of
one person or several problems..TCI has problems
because of direction from the top..Street guys will buy anything or so they think????? Good Luck
with your projects........Dave...1033/stock

[stevep]

Just my $.o2.
Every time someone brought a TCI converter for me to install in their trans,It blew up.I have not done that many,but I have not had a good experience with them.
I see the same thing with stock converter rebuilders.My shop has good luck with one company and a shop on the other side of town has nothing but bad luck with them!
If you have a good experience with a company,stick with them.

The difference between in-laws and outlaws-outlaws are wanted

[Hot Rod]

Dave I know you and your red bird and I cannot agree more, the Converter that I have is a custom built unit I have all the sheets to prove it.
It's based off of the information recieved from Rodney Butler, and the combination that I run.
I also agree that TCI does mostly street set-ups
I am the proud owner of a 10" Coan that was built for the 455 that ran the DP-041 cam on the street,
I also have an 8" ATI that was Junk the first day that I bought it and it was never made good on, Live and Learn. Again I never bad mouth any company that I have not done business with, or on hear say. I do my home work and try to make the best informed decision based on the information that is available at the time. I have spoken with you a MIR before and you know my very good friend Truman Fields.
All I have done to my car is make it a very consistant car and most of the failures are done by me, the car runs the number round after round, but does it have the best of the best no not even close, but it's sure a whole lot of fun!

Good Luck and glad we have someone like you on the board!

Rodney

Outlaw Pontiac Racers Association
"For Those Who Live the Legend"

"WELCOME TO THE NO SPIN ZONE!"

[torqjunki]

My converter experiences...First street/strip combo that ran 11.17 @ 120mph in 3600lb car, I used a PTC that I purchaced new through a local speed shop for $325. I had never heard of PTC, but was recommended by the shop owner. Drove the piss outa the car on the street and strip for about 3 years, no problems. That same converter is in a buddies car now doing same duty. I stepped up with new combo running 10.20's @ 129 at 3500lbs. Again I went with PTC. Original 9" unit was loose(5000 out of hole) but still managed 10.33. PTC built me a new 10" unit at no cost and swapped out. It went 10.25. I recently had a rear wheel dyno session and found that peak torque is well over 600ft lbs around 3500rpm. Armed with this info and wanting tighter stall for nitrous, I sent the 10" in for tightning. PTC said we will need to build you a new converter, a 9.5" with a hand made stator desighned for 632ci motors to get it tight enough at that low rpm. THey are doing this for the price of tightning up the old converter, $175. Thats good customer service and proven quality parts.

[DAVE RIBEIRO]

Hey Hot Rod,

Thanks for the nice words,I do believe in giving everyone a fair chance to defend themselves
You are exactly right when you say you need to know who to talk with?? I too have an 8" 4,200 TCI
and it works very-well,also have an A-1 and a 9"
blue steak...They were all custom made for a heavy
pontiac 3,600-3,900 lbs. car....5-500 RPM range..
The convertors are all for sale, I have gone to a
Metric-200..It's taken two/three years to find someone who can keep them together...I hope to see you at the MIR-points race in April...Good-
luck racing in 2003... One thing I can say about
TCI, they are a good sponsor for both NHRA/IHRA and help the little guy.Make it a point to visit
them at the races..THat's the place to bitch at them..........Dave...1033/stock

[tempest455]

It seems to me, installation method, pump engagement depth, binding, stall vs. weight, load etc. all would have an effect on the life of a converter. Additionally, I think they all can have problems, regardless of the mfg. I have a friend that has tried most of them in an NMCA car that runs 1.2 sixty-foot times, running low 8's. Some mfg.'s recommendations went quicker than others did but I don't recall him ever blowing one up. However, TH-400's, that another story. :0

Regarding TCI, IMHO, there is a difference at least in appearance between the TCI street converters and the race converters. The race converters appear to be quality units from the fit and finish standpoint. The street converters do not appear as nicely welded FWIW.

I guess that may be the case with a lot of manufacturers.

Tempest455
http://www.wauknet.com/douthitt/

[fasteddy]

Speaking from my personal experience in racing pontiacs, I have had nothing but good luck with The Continental Converter. Everytime I have called for tech or refresh info, I have been treated like an old friend by Chris. I've had 2 Continentals, one 10" and now a 9" and both have performed as planned with no problems in 6 full seasons. +.02

fasteddy

[Juliano]

Seems like the the "customer" hacked up his TCI converter so bad that TCI rep would not honor the damage as Manufactured defect so what you do is go somewhere else and bad mouth the product because you could not fool them. I know a lot of guys running TCI with no problems.

[Hot Rod]

Jim,
I was not questioning what you had stated I just know that everytime that I have spoken with Chris, the problem got handled, and the converter worked as was stated I also paid a lot of money for the Coan 10" that I have. I am sorry that your friend got screwed by them, it's very shocking to find out that when you purchase a race piece and find out that it's a stock unit I would be pissed to. All I can say is that I have never had any problem getting anything handled by them and would have no fear putting the 10" back in if the TA was to go back on the street, sorry you mistook what I was saying!!!!!!

Rodney

Outlaw Pontiac Racers Association
"For Those Who Live the Legend"

"WELCOME TO THE NO SPIN ZONE!"

[TTS]

Juliano, flaws cannot be faked. I was told by a TCI repairman "If you have everything you say you have, the converter will work this time" After installing a TF-8 and the car did not move. A $60 stock converter that I still have put the car on the trailer. But, I am not capable of knowing if the problem exists in the converter, because TCI told me so. I have 140lbs. in 1,2,and 3rd, 400lbs in reverse and the cooler flow is like the alasken pipeline. Of course I am not TCI so my customer believes TCI's story - It's on thier end. Or a quote similar. Just one example- short version of MANY. BTW, the converter would move the car when it came back- slower than before, just for good measure.
Just in, Precision Industries will be doing a FREE stall change for another cust. FREE after 26 months of wonderful service. Get that from the other company.

[This message was edited by TTS on March 28, 2003 at 11:41 PM.]

[Ron]

This just in......I like my TCI and the wonderful customer service.

Ron

[dammen8]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by torqjunki:
I recently had a rear wheel dyno session and found that peak torque is well over 600ft lbs around 3500rpm. Armed with this info and wanting tighter stall for nitrous, I sent the 10" in for tightning. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Torqjunki
I am just wondering what rpm did you start your pull? Did your torque "line" or curve actually peak that low or did you start the pull at 3500 and that was the highest reading or did you start the pull at a lower rpm and did the tq climb to 3500 then fall off? I am just having a hard time believing that your peak tq is at 3500. I have had my car on the chassis dyno also and it said that my car has peak tq at 2000 rpm even thow I know that the engines makes peak tq at 4800rpm. In my opinion you can not go with a chassis dyno in a automatic car and be accurate. With a chassis dyno sheet and a automatic you have tq multiplication and slippage to contend with so your tq numbers with be wrong. Now unless you are setting this up to run the bottle all the time IMO I think that the 3500rpm stall N/A will hurt the car but the 3500rpm stall will probably work good with the bottle. I am currently having Dynamic build my new converter and they are setting it up with a 5000-5100 stall speed it is a 9" with a custom billet aluminum stator and a mechanical diode they said less than 6% slippage on top end and if I want to spray the car the converter will take it and it comes with a 5 year warrenty. Well anyway I hope I am wrong about your new converter and I hope it works great for you. This is my chassis sheet. Talk to you later

Chad Dammen



ND's fastest Pontiac (I think) and Minot's fastest street car (not like that means much)

[tempest455]

Off the topic but Neal Chance makes a very cool converter! It's the kind that you can unbolt. It has cap bolts around the circumference, the front comes off and there's an O-ring that seals it. When you take it apart, you can see the entire thing is machined. If you have spare stators, you can change the stall yourself. Nice option if you have a nitrous combo and want to have a nuts and bolts converter and a nitrous converter.

The downside is, they are very expensive.

Tempest455
http://www.wauknet.com/douthitt/

[torqjunki]

Chad...They started the pull at 2500rpm. The converter I had installed at the time was a borrowed Hughes that stalled around 5000rpm. Your dyno operator seems to know his equipment and maybe has better equipment. I was told the converter flash made it impossible to get data any lower. Either way, 5000rpm or even 4500rpm I feel is too loose for my motor. I will likely loose some performance if stall on motor falls below 3500rpm. I don,t think it will be a lot. The tight converter will be an advantage on the street and poorly prepped tracks, and will be killer on the gas. No one around here with anything other than some all out race cars will turn their gas off and run me motor on motor, so may as well make it work on the spray! Thanks for the insight on the chassis dyno. Did not know the numbers would be THAT far off. I too hope my decision pans out. All I can say is that knowing the car and motor characteristics as well as I do, I can say without a doubt, the converter has never been tight enough. It has always gone through the gears very quicky and struggled through the top of 3rd gear crossing the line ,I feel, 2 or3 hundred rpm too high. The motor likes to be shifted at about 5800. Will post results, probably be a couple months away.

[torqjunki]

Just re-reading your post...They are setting it up with 5000rpm on motor? What do they say it will stall on the gas and what size shot out of the hole? Unless they have new technology, anything over 100 shot or so will zing that converter to the moon and you will likely be on the rev-limiter before the quarter. Would be nice to have a converter that stalled the same on motor and gas, but don,t think thats possible. Everyone I talked to said make a decision and have the converter built for nitrous or motor. If you have ever seen a dedicated high dollar nitrous car leave on motor, you will have a idea how tight the converter is. However, most of these cars run Chev and Ford motors. I feel that Pontiacs have a bit of an advantage in that our inherent torque will allow us to save some ET with the tight converters.

[63Longtop]

Chance convertors are what I run, give Marty a call. They are located in Cheney KS. JIM