[77TA]

I was looking at summits world products 500 cid BB 540 hp to 580 hp on pump gas crate motor about 7500 bucks good parts that could
probably make 800 hp with more compression and bigger cam. I see Butler has Tiger 1 POntiac crates for about 7500 making about 450 hp and would need better heads and probably NOS to make 700 hp TIger 2 and tiger-3 good for more but cost 15k or so ! I sometimes think pontiac venders think pontiac guys must be rich if they care about going fast. sorry venting steam but the Chevy is all after market parts good parts and is cheaper no wonder so many go that direction if they want to go faster.

[77TA]

I was looking at summits world products 500 cid BB 540 hp to 580 hp on pump gas crate motor about 7500 bucks good parts that could
probably make 800 hp with more compression and bigger cam. I see Butler has Tiger 1 POntiac crates for about 7500 making about 450 hp and would need better heads and probably NOS to make 700 hp TIger 2 and tiger-3 good for more but cost 15k or so ! I sometimes think pontiac venders think pontiac guys must be rich if they care about going fast. sorry venting steam but the Chevy is all after market parts good parts and is cheaper no wonder so many go that direction if they want to go faster.

[6567GTO]

I hear ya 77TA. I could've built 2 Chevies by now. But I'll never give in. Hang in there. Some good things are happening in the "aftermarket" Pontiac world. I've noticed some things are getting cheaper but there's still room for improvement. Hopefully prices will continue to level out some more.

[Brian Baker]

Chevy's are cheaper (relatively) for two reasons:

1.) Larger market...this means more consumers to buy the product, therefore prices can be lower and the manufacturer still make a decent profit.

2.) 30+ years of R&D over that of the Pontiacs...Pontiac hasn't made a V8 that could be modified for performance since 1978 yet Chevy still is. More money being spent on R&D for Chevy as a result, which means more parts availability at a cheaper price.

I don't get pissed off about this, so why should you? I choose to run Pontiacs because that's what I want to run. They're more interesting to me than a Chevy, and the bodies of Pontiacs have always had better styling than Chevy in my opinion. If money were an issue, I would have bought a '78 Nova for next to nothing and put a small-block in it to run 12's in the 1/4 mile and probably have $4000 tied up in teh whole car and have a halfway decent "streeter".

[77TA]

I was having a weak moment earlier sorry. I understand the whys its just frustrating fighting an up-hill battle and then having to pay more to boot.

[Poncho64]

I dont consider it an uphill battle because I usually end up beating chevy guys, the other day I raced a guy that was bragging about how much he had in his motor and after I beat him I informed him that I had less money in my whole car. I have several chevrolet as well as pontiac products I drive and race the pontiacs, I play with the chevrolets. and as far as price goes, I am restoring a 59 impala an I am here to tell you "cheap" ha ha, if I had as much money in my 64 lemans as I have in this 59 impala the lemans would be capable of space travel.

[Rashionality]

I gave in...BBC for me now. Sorry guys, anybody looking for some serious Pontiac horsepower should e-mail me.

Complete race 455 motor w/ race trans or will separate parts.

Complete 455 & TH400 that needs rebuilding.

Sorry but having 750 Horsepower for just a little more than my top end costs is WAY TOO appealing to me. Breaking less parts, availability of parts, and a LOT more RPM appeals to my logical side.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>"I am beautiful, I am smart, I can do whatever I want...and dog gone it... people like me!"...Scott Misus<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[6567GTO]

Rash - I hope you're kidding. Please don't do it.

[6567GTO]

[This message has been edited by 6567GTO (edited 05-25-2001).]

[Rashionality]

Nope, not kidding.

[Rashionality]

Keeping the body Pontiac...THAT'S ABOUT IT THOUGH. Be realistic, it is just logical to go with the BBC. Period.

[6567GTO]

Not to long ago you said something about a promise made.

[Brian Baker]

Regarding 77TA's comment about "the uphill battle", if it were easy, everybody would be doing it. I guess that's why so many are running Chevrolet's, there's so many parts available, it's "easy" to go fast.

Rashy, you dissapoint me if you're going the BBC route. A self-motivated person as yourself with the "in your face" attitude you have (let's face it, Pantera and a body full of tats is definately "in your face"), I would expect more from. Sit back and think it out first. If parts are breaking now, they'll break just the same with the BBC. If Steve Minton can run his mid-9 second 455/E-head "Mob City" Firebird all season with no troubles and just give it a bearing and ring job off-season, there's no reason you can't either. Maybe the machine work is in question? I see so many guys running Pontiacs in my area, blowing their shi* up sometimes 2 and 3 times a year, yet they keep going back to the same guy for machine work and assembly (funny though how this same guys personal stuff never breaks). Not suggesting you point fingers, I'm just saying.....looks like a duck, walks like a duck.....

[Bob Mullikin]

Sorry to see another fast Pontiac retire. Can't blame you for wanting to go faster. Chevy's definitely have the advantage of R/D and the market volume.
Pontiac racing is changing with the coming of new after market engine components. Unfortunately it's going to take time and money to achieve Chevy's level of performance. I hope in the next 5 years we will see 1000+ horsepower Pontiac engines a common thing on the dragstrips. They'll never be as cheap but, with time they will become be as dependable as the Chevy in the other lane.
When it comes down to it, it's how fast do you want to go and what you want to do it with. I would rather be a second slower and have a Pontiac under the hood than switch to a Chevy.
What ever the case Rash, good luck and hope you find what you're lookin for.

Bob Mullikin

[Rashionality]

When the price of an IA block goes down to the price of a Merlin block, when there are REASONABLY priced heads (that actually flow), when there are redily available cranks, when parts start showing durability...I'll be back. Yes, I liked the idea of going fast in my Pontiac and I made the kind of power to go that fast...just sensible to convert. That's it. I'll still be at Norwalk and the Grove...just not in the Pontiac Powered Q16...even though my heads are Pontiacs Big Chiefs

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>"I am beautiful, I am smart, I can do whatever I want...and dog gone it... people like me!"...Scott Misus<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[jack gaydosh]

Well guys I had to go that route to I was hurting to many parts trying to be competetive with the rest of the s/c racers. Pontiac motors cant stand the heat week after week of running 8.60 at 158.00. Then putting them on the throtal stop and running 8.90 at 156.00 the next week. Just had to many block problems. IA block is just not cost effective by the time you bye a good crank for 2200.00 the block for 3500.00 that dose not include the rest of the parts. Going to NY to pick up my 509 pat musi motor carb to pan with ING system is half the cost of the pontiac motor. 509 makes over 800 hp for half the cost! Sorry guys will still see you at the pontiac events with my freinds other pontiac firebird. Good luck to all jack gaydosh

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[Rashionality]

Way to go Jack!

[6567GTO]

http://168.229.236.7/~cc/wav/foolish.wav

[Rashionality]

That's what I've been thinking about you Pontiac guys now for a while

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>"I am beautiful, I am smart, I can do whatever I want...and dog gone it... people like me!"...Scott Misus<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[6567GTO]

http://168.229.236.7/~cc/wav/jabbalaf.wav

[This message has been edited by 6567GTO (edited 05-25-2001).]