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Torment · 11-23-2002, 10:23 PM

I run a Moroso 7qt in a 2nd Gen Bird. It solved my oiling issues which sound similar to what you're experiencing. With a 1 3/4" header the stock starter fits but with a 2" primary tube it won't. Well I guess it might if you fit the header and starter up simultaneously and held them in place while trying to start some bolts but it wouldn't be much fun and it might not work. I considered it and then just bought a Powerhouse mini to save the trouble. I don't have any ground clearance issues with it. You can buy the appropriate extended pickup with the pan.

The secret to happiness is not getting what you want but rather, wanting what you have.

Robert Williams · 11-24-2002, 12:19 PM

The Edelbrock Pontiac Heads made after 3-15-2002 are the new revised heads. There is four digits INK stamped on the end of the box. If the number is 2074 or greater than it is the new revised head. These heads have revised head bolt boss heights as well as the spark plug hole has been moved approx 1/16" over. If you look in the chamber you will see the spark plug hole is now closer to the intake valve. On the head bolt holes the upper holes under the valve cover have been beefed up. On the factory heads and the early Edelbrock heads the upper outer head bolt holes are recessed down into the head, you know the ones that always fill up with crap, well they are no longer recessed in the head, they moved them up even with the top of the head. Also the center upper head bolt boss on the early Edelbrock was recessed approx 1/4", this also has been up even with the top of the head. Much more beef on the new head. The new head takes 3 different bolt lenghts and you will need head bolt kit #8549 for the new heads. The early head takes 6 different lenght bolts. I own a pair of the early 87cc Edelbrocks and this summer i also purchased a pair of the 72cc Edelbrocks. With them side by side you can clearly see the new head is stronger in certain areas. The REASON for the change, (cracks). I talked to Jim Butler about the new revised head and he said he has welded several of them around those recessed head bolt holes an around the spark plug hole. On some of the race engines with very high compression they were getting cracked in the recessed bolt holes. Also guys were using oversize OD sockets and impact guns and were cracking the head. Butler told me that he had several meetings with Vic Edelbrock and his Engineers at Edelbrocks Facility and Butler pointed out the problems he was seeing with the early head and Vic Edelbrock gave the Engineering staff the go ahead to inprove the head, and they did just that.

Robert Williams

Robert Williams · 11-24-2002, 02:50 PM

Forgot to mention the coolant holes in the Edelbrock head. I am not sure when Edelbrock changed the coolant holes but they are smaller than the early head. Also on the new head they removed two of the holes. Some of the holes on the new head are approx 1/4 the size of the same hole on the early head and some are D shaped instead of round. Fel-Pro would not change the water holes in their head gasket so Edelbrock changed them on the heads. Butler also said that there were a few other small improvements but i don't know what they are as he was getting blasted with phone calls and had to go.

Robert Williams

Big Mike · 11-24-2002, 08:13 PM

WOW! Thanks for the information. IT appears I have the early production heads. However, you did not mention if they improved on the oil drain back holes.

David Holmberg · 11-24-2002, 08:27 PM

Sounds like the stuff Pontiac Dude has been doing to E heads for a long time... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

Some people blow gaskets, some know how to build it right the first time... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

Robert Williams · 11-24-2002, 10:30 PM

Big Mike, i just checked on the oil drain back holes on my Edelbrocks, they are the same on the early and revised head. 4 drain back holes in the same location and the same size on both the early and revised heads. Looking at the drain back holes i can't see any problem getting the oil back to the pan. If you are having problems then you are getting too much oil to the heads. The factory cast iron heads are deep from the valve cover flange to the roof of the head where the oil flows. The Edelbrocks are shallow, almost flat from the valve cover flange to the roof of the head and no room for the extra oil. The bottom line is when Edelbrock designed the heads they made the intake and exhaust ports much larger than a factory head, plus the deck thickness of 5/8" and whatever else so something had to go, and what went, oil and coolant that's what went. The design of the Edelbrock head is great, but putting more in a space where there is no room, then something gets kicked out. The Edelbrock heads do not hold excess oil like a factory iron head and they also hold less coolant than a factory iron head. David, i agree, Pontiac Dude has his act together. Ken has helped me out on the water hole issue, and i believe it was Ken that got Edelbrock to change the water holes. http://www.pontiacdude.cc

Robert Williams

Big Mike · 11-26-2002, 05:39 AM

Thanks Robert for all your research. I wonder if Brian ever spoke with the machine shop about those modifications on Steve Minton's Edelbrock heads?
My next decision is what oil pan to use now. The Milodon looks like it would give me the best ground clearance, but the Moroso holds more oil. Canton seems to be a popular Pontiac pan, but they don't seem to hold a lot more oil than a stock pan. Do the Canton pans have some sort of advantage over the other brands? How about starter clearance, I like the Milodon pan, but the kick out sure looks like it would need a mini-starter.

Old Man Taylor · 11-26-2002, 09:20 AM

Has anyone measured the distance from the head surface to the valves to see how much deeper the valves are in an 87 cc head vs. a 72 cc head?

http://www.jimspontiac.homestead.com/Index.html

Brian Baker · 11-26-2002, 02:16 PM

Didn't get to call yesterday, and didn't remember to call today until after 4:00 pm. Will call tomorrow morning and hopefully Chuck will be in.

Skip Fix · 11-26-2002, 02:30 PM

OMT I'd bet it is close to the valve length difference. I have measurments for 72cc E heads vs RAIVs, 62s and 6Xs somewhere.

Old Man Taylor · 11-26-2002, 02:42 PM

Skip - I would be interested in those measurements if you can find them.

http://www.jimspontiac.homestead.com/Index.html

Steve C. · 11-26-2002, 03:47 PM

FWIW, in a e-mail response from Edelbrock they stated the #6057 (87cc) casting has 5.093" long intake valves and 5.110" long exhaust valves.
The #6059 (72cc) casting are 5.213" long on intake and 5.230" long on exhaust.

'Damn right it's a street car'

slowbird · 11-26-2002, 05:37 PM

My e-heads have a number 2167 on the box and are not the newer design. I bought them in June.

Robert Williams · 11-26-2002, 07:54 PM

Slowbird, what is the Edelbrock part number for your heads? My new 72cc Edelbrocks are part #60589 bare. I purchased the heads from Scott at summit racing. What does it say in your installation instructions that came with the heads. My instructions say- NOTE:#60569-#60599 AND #60509 MANUFACTURED AFTER 3-15-2002 OR STAMPED WITH A #2074 AND GREATER, HAVE REVISED HEAD BOLT BOSS HEIGHTS. HEAD BOLT KIT #8549 WILL BE REQUIRED FOR THESE CYLINDER HEADS COVERED BY THESE INSTRUCTIONS. As you can see my heads are part #60589 which is none of the above but they are the new revised heads and may have got packed with old instructions. Scott told me that all Edelbrock ships to summit are the new heads. Call Edelbrocks tech line 1-800-416-8628 and find out. They also added a number 9 to the part numbers, my early Edelbrocks are part #6057 compleat 87cc and the new part number for the compleat 87cc head is #60579. Let us know.

Robert Williams

[This message was edited by Robert Williams on November 26, 2002 at 10:15 PM.]

[This message was edited by Robert Williams on November 26, 2002 at 10:20 PM.]

SCOTT ESTERLE · 11-27-2002, 07:38 AM

The only thing the extra# is for on the end of the part# is so EDL could sell the heads as singles instead of sets. You can no longer buy them as a set they are sold as singles only.

Robert Williams · 11-27-2002, 03:07 PM

Slowbird, got your e-mail today. If the people that you ordered them from had to back order them from edelbrock like you said, then edelbrock just sent the older heads in the newer box. The older heads are fine but the new version is better. There was a fella on the board not long ago that ordered a set of e-heads from the same people that you did and they were also back ordered like yours. This guy lived outside of the US and the heads were sent to him right from edelbrock. When he got the heads he got one new vesion and one older version. Nobody seems to be checking these problems out at edelbrock. If you had ordered them from Summit you would have the new version because thats all edelbrock ships them. Scott thanks for clearing up the number 9, i now remember you telling me that but i forgot. I will be calling you Friday or Monday to order the seats.

Robert Williams

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