[PONTIAC DUDE]

Ok, my turn to ask questions.
Lady Dude's 89 FireChicken V-6 with a 5 spd is tired. But she just loves her car.
Then she can even Bracket race it.
Question? What is involved with installing a 350/400/455 Pontiac engine with a T-350 and Removing the Computer.
I know someone has done this conversion.

What about the rear end brace assembly?
The Computer? Going with a factory type HEI. What will work and won't after the computer is ripped out?
Exhaust Manifolds to use?
Motor mounts?
Hood clearance?
Front Springs?
Etc?
Thanks and need to know if it's practical or going to be an abortion.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Ok, my turn to ask questions.
Lady Dude's 89 FireChicken V-6 with a 5 spd is tired. But she just loves her car.
Then she can even Bracket race it.
Question? What is involved with installing a 350/400/455 Pontiac engine with a T-350 and Removing the Computer.
I know someone has done this conversion.

What about the rear end brace assembly?
The Computer? Going with a factory type HEI. What will work and won't after the computer is ripped out?
Exhaust Manifolds to use?
Motor mounts?
Hood clearance?
Front Springs?
Etc?
Thanks and need to know if it's practical or going to be an abortion.

[PLAY400]

Hi Ken I have a 1977 400 in my 88 Bird. No Air. Its a project that been on hold this year but to answer your questions. Should mention I had an 84 parts car to rob.

1. The wiring harness is split between the the dash and the computer. What I did was remove the computer, and cut all the wires going to it at their source. Since all the engine control wiring is on 1 connector from the firewall and the lights. horn etc are on the other connector you just have to worry about engine wiring. I was able to identify the HEI lead and the altenator leads which are all I needed. I haven't got the factory gauges working yet and don't know if I'll bother. Aftermart is an easier way to go. I also have a complete dash, gauages, wiring harness and senders for a carb'd 84 Bird which I could use.

2. I used the stock exhaust manifolds from the 77.
Dual exhaust looks like a BIG problem.

3. I used the 77 motor mounts with the V8 frame mounts from the 84 Bird. Rememeber to move the front brake line that go across the x-memeber to behind it before you intall the V8 mounts. Cross memeber is already drilled for these mounts.

4. Hood clearance, There isn't any. Had to remove the PS infavor of manual so I could lower the altenator. Going to make an air box and hopefully plumb it to the carb. May need a hood scope as there is zilch between the carb and the hood. Jenny will never be able to drive it with a scope.

5. I used the 6 cyl springs with the V8 sway bar. Sits good

6. Oil filter doesn't work out. Was going to remote it but I since found out about the RA adaptor that angles the filter back. Should work out as I have room going back but the frame is in the way of the original set-up.

7. I'm using the Turbo 400 so the OD 200R's x-memeber works out. But I lost mine. Since the 350 is shorter I'm not sure but the V6 or non OD x-memeber may work

8. I still have the rear end brace but since the rear end will never hold up I was going to go to a 9" a set of track bars.

9. Replaced fuel tank with the 84 one.

All and all I was able to or had to install the engine and trans as 1 unit. Alan

[ta406pont]

Good question Dude,I always wanted to stuff a 455 in a 89-90 formula 350,let me know how it goes when you do the conversion.Someone here must have done one of these by now I would think..Something like Neil Owens Firebird would be pretty cool..

Later Rob..

[ September 12, 2002, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: 80pont406 ]

[PONTIAC DUDE]

I think the 77 motor mounts are the same as all the later V-8 firebirds? I think, 74-81???
Solid bar type, right. No rubber.

The short 3 bolt style??? Not the longer full size car ones?

So any Chevy V-8 frame mount from 82-91 should work?????
Radiator????????? clearance????????

Turbo 400 and the crossmember mounts in the factory holes in the frame? 200R or is the 5 spd crossmember the same.

[Ken K]

The front springs from a S10, G-Body and the F-Body will work, take your pick on how stiff you want it. A radiator won't be hard to find, the G-Body radiator is the same but I would use the aluminum radiator that they used in the Z28 and the T/A. You still have to hook up that funky torq arm from the rear end to the transmission unless you set up the rear end another way. The gauges won't be hard to hook up since most GM cars used a standard type sending unit. The speedometer is electronic and there is not a cable from the transmission to the speedometer.

[PLAY400]

You got it backwards on the mounts. Newer corporate mounts are wide like the old Pontiac mounts. Mounts on my 73 455 that I got out of a Grammaville are the same as the ones on my 77 I got from a GP. Still that clam shell on the frame that mount with 3 bolts. Your V6 mounts are the same size as the older smaller Chevy V8 mounts cause thats what I used when I had a small block in my 47 which was on a S10 frame. V8 rad fits, lots of angle but I haven't decided wheather to use the engine fan or go electic. Holes are in the frame rails for OD and non OD transmissions. I haven't checked the fit of the OD x-member cause I lost it but if the 200R OD will fit the T400 crossmemeber in my 68 Bird I don't see any problems going the other way. Exhaust and hood clearance are the big problems. I keep thinking there must be a simple way to lower the engine other than making a custom set of 1 piece solid mounts. I should also mention that the mounts were assembled and installed in the car before I lowered the motor in because I didn't want to remove everything off the firewall drive side and then I bolted the mounts to the engine. Alan

[Ken MacNicol]

Use the motor mounts from a 70'[ steel on frame and rubber on the block] and you will have clearance for a nitrous plate under a 2 inch cowl hood. Lakewood used to make a adapter to mount torque arm to TH350. Old style 3 tube headers also fit with no problems.

[John Bailey (GTOKID)]

Neals car is for sale.... compleat rolling 13k !!!!!(ed Quay car thats a steal!!!! I have over 18k in my 82 and its not even close to running! PS dude should contact Ed Quay his catalog on that body is very helpful, tell Him John Bailey sent ya, he will take good care of you , PS NUNZI has a crossmember for dual exh with a 400 thm, also leave the stock springs, they are fine

[ September 13, 2002, 09:28 PM: Message edited by: GTOKID ]

[John Bailey (GTOKID)]

also a 69 GTO d-port header fits with moving 1 tube. neal had a set on his OTHER street car, or make a set from a headman box of bends... that I have a EXTRA... 2' to 2 1/8.

[78lemans]

i used 79 301 mounts that i was going to use on my 78 lemans, i also 2nd gen hooker headers on it, i cut off the collectors to make it work though, and move the frame over a little but it really was no problem. biggest problem is the fact that the oil filter runs right into the a-arm, but i trimed it down a bunch and boxed it back in, then used the slanted oil filter adapter, then used a 403 olds oil filter. don't worry at all about the spings they work fine, you may have problems with the 88 and the wiper motor, mines and 83 and i knew it would work, i still have the AC box on it but i don't work of coarse it could be made to. the plugs are a 10 min job on the pontiac VS. the old chevy any why use a s-10 sterring box and get rid of the power steering it should turn just fine, my wife can drive mine with no PS. i'm also using the stock rad right now works but not that great. i did have it overheat one time.
use the tranny X-member from a 82-84 with the 3 speed auto. i think its a turbo 200, then use the b&m or however makes it TQ arm adapter. then use a long tailhousing th-350 and use the long drive shaft. or you can use a 4th gen alum driveshaft. i have also been doing good with the 7.5 rear end, car is pulling 1.6 60 ft.s and running a 7.8 in the 1/8 mile with a bad tranny, and once i got a good tranny something went down the carb, and it ran a 8.21 on 5 clys, so once i rebuld the motor i'm hoping for a 7.4 with no nitrous, then see what i can do with a little bottle. these cars hook up and haul butt. my motor is just a little ram air 3 motor with some port work that i did on some 62 castings with sunk top pistons. i have a few pics of doing the work to it, but i have to figure out the scanner first. if you have any questions about it e-mail me dude orif you have AIM my AIM is thirdgen455

shad watson
oh yeah P-dude i need to find out about maybe getting some pistons from you i need sunktops! thanks

[SLOW 77]

You don't need sunktops you need some made out of Titanium so you don't blow them to pieces again [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

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[Ray Cox]

dont forget the head gaskets!!! LOL..

[bob8748]

Love this topic
Still trying after 2 years to piece mine together. 78 400 with th350 in 87 Fbody. Dick Duclow is the man I'm waiting to get the headers from, last I heard he was waiting on donor car for test fit, been a while though. Whats up with the headers Dick. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img] Changed my plans mid way through, now putting ladder bar frames in and have 32x16x15 slicks sittin under it. Looks awesome, Hope I get it done before I retire. Thanks for the tips guys, keep them coming.
Bob

[78lemans]

hey slow77 i figured out what happened to the motor! stupid on my part for not checking what the machine did to the motor [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] when they put the sleve in they bored it for cast pistons not forged! i told the *&^&*^#((#))@)@^^@ I was running forged, anyway i'm taking it to wes's and having the other motor bored to .060 over and using the new set of pistons i already have. anyway ASAP my 83 455 powerd bird will fly again [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] i also think i'm putting it your old cam this time too, i want to see if i can hit a 7.0 or a 6.9 on motor then squezze that sucker a little quicker [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] i'm also not taking so much out of the pistons this time. thinking of putting it right at 10:1 instead of 9.3:1.

anyway guys if i can ever get my wife to show me how this dang scanner works i'll see if i can post some pics of it

[SLOW 77]

After you get it up and running you can run it by my house and we can shoot some pictures of it, I have a digital camera now. Glad to hear the news.

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