[crkoester]

Hey guys...

The thread "10:1 CR '71 reman..." got me thinking...

Thinking about the engine that will go into my 69 goat. From what I can tell, my performance goal is about 400 hp. I'd need to get this in a pump gas engine, and I definitely will not be building this one myself.

From what I can gather, a 455 is likely the way to go if I want to easily achieve 400hp (and naturally plenty of torque at the same time) at pump gas compression.

What can I expect to spend for a long block to fit these requirements, from a reputable builder with quality components? Not looking for a backyard job, but a professionally built unit - some kind of warranty would be great. Emphasis on reliability, not super-tuned edgy power. It would be nice to have it be a little bit mean (hence the 400hp). Any recommended pro engine builders out there?

I've looked at The Dude's site - he has a basic 455 buildup he's calling 365+ HP for about $3400 (no core charge). He lists a head upgrade for $200, and porting for $325+. I'll guess this will get the unit closer to the 400hp neighborhood? I'm sure his stuff is awesome and I know he had a good reputation. However, someone in the previous thread suggested that a similarly rated setup could be had from a reputable builder for less than $3000? Is this realistic?

Anyone offering a complete engine like this, rather than a long block? If not, how much expense (and time) should I budget for collecting the tin and accessories? FYI, I still want A/C (best of both worlds).

Thanks guys...


Chris

[crkoester]

Hey guys...

The thread "10:1 CR '71 reman..." got me thinking...

Thinking about the engine that will go into my 69 goat. From what I can tell, my performance goal is about 400 hp. I'd need to get this in a pump gas engine, and I definitely will not be building this one myself.

From what I can gather, a 455 is likely the way to go if I want to easily achieve 400hp (and naturally plenty of torque at the same time) at pump gas compression.

What can I expect to spend for a long block to fit these requirements, from a reputable builder with quality components? Not looking for a backyard job, but a professionally built unit - some kind of warranty would be great. Emphasis on reliability, not super-tuned edgy power. It would be nice to have it be a little bit mean (hence the 400hp). Any recommended pro engine builders out there?

I've looked at The Dude's site - he has a basic 455 buildup he's calling 365+ HP for about $3400 (no core charge). He lists a head upgrade for $200, and porting for $325+. I'll guess this will get the unit closer to the 400hp neighborhood? I'm sure his stuff is awesome and I know he had a good reputation. However, someone in the previous thread suggested that a similarly rated setup could be had from a reputable builder for less than $3000? Is this realistic?

Anyone offering a complete engine like this, rather than a long block? If not, how much expense (and time) should I budget for collecting the tin and accessories? FYI, I still want A/C (best of both worlds).

Thanks guys...


Chris

[crkoester]

And yes, I've also seen The Dude's "455, 12-second, 87 octane" buildup (that appears to be a complete engine, "bolt in and go") for about $5000. Is this reasonable? Does anyone else offer a similar setup (at any price?).

I'm definitely neither picking on or promoting "The Dude", just using his stuff as an obvious example and starting point so I can learn what to expect.

Dude, if you are reading this (and I know you are!), I learn a lot from what you post here, and I've looked through your website quite a bit. Thanks for your contributions here on the forums.

Thanks again...


Chris

[66bonne]

Always a good idea to shop around when you're looking to spend some bucks. Just make sure you are comparing apples to apples as there is usually a good reason why one motor/builder is cheaper or more expensive than another.
Pontiac Dude built a 455/475HP for me recently and I absolutley love it, can't wait to get it to the strip. My son's restoration shop will soon be taking in a 455 GTO [with four bolt mains]and we will definitely be taking the motor to Ken. As I have said before, Pontiac Dude is one of the very best builders around plus he and his entire family are some of the nicest people you'll meet in this hobby.

[Brian Baker]

These days, $3500 will get you a stock rebuild at most machine shops. I'm not talking about running a hone through it and slapping in new bearings and rings, I'm talking about going through it correctly. $5000 for a mild performance build is very reasonable, ESPECIALLY considering you don't have to supply any of the parts. A good used 455 block alone will go for around $500.

[ponchjoe]

Just finished a 428 with a 455 crank, I had it bored .030, align bored, deck trued, crank turned ,bought the pistons (TRW forged) cam bearings & install, Exhaust seats and valve job on already ported 7k3s, cleaning etc. total bill $1800. This included the cost of a stock crank turned .010 / .010. other parts and incidentals (Gaskets, timing set,timing cover, crank scraper, windage tray.) 500.00 +. Already had an RPM, edelbrock 750 and an HEI. I built it myself. For a 400 hp street driver your stock rods will work fine, spend money on the heads. Call Jeff Kauffman or Jim Butler, not saying anything bad about Ken, just compare apples to apples as someone else suggested.

[LouisianaGuy]

My 455 came in at under 3000.00 and runs 12.70 in a 4000 lb car
Mike

[scotts78TA]

I am in CA and just finished a 400 using a local builder.

Standard rebuild stuff plus Line bored .060, balanced, reconditioned rods, KB flat tops, Complete comp cam valve train (including machining the valve seats for 995 springs, Heads shaved .060, hardened valve seats, etc. for about $4,000. The more time you put into it yourself the less you have to pay someone else...

[Pontiac Poor]

You'll have an extremely hard time finding anyone willing to warranty the engine if they do not assemble it.

[Region Warrior]

Just from my experience. Having good parts to start with helps alot. Less machine work or repairs. Less new parts. Assembling yourself. This all saves money. Dudes prices are reasonable. Machine work and assembly is like any other business. There are good, fair, poor. It's good to stay with a shop that knows Pontiac's, especially if you dont. They know what to look for. Do's and donts. They know what packages work. Dont worry so much about HP advertizements. Any shop can put a 400hp engine together from a cataloge. But how well will it behave in a street car, and for how long? Just things to think about. Yes, power is made in the heads. Must have a good buttom end to handle it though. North Carolina! Shops there build 358ci/850hp motors!

[Ollie]

Chek Jim Hands book, "How To Build Max-Performance Pontiac V8s He lists examples of street/strip Pintiac engine packages from a number of well known Pontiac engine builders.

[Rholmes]

Chris you may want to consider joining our local "Carolina Classic Pontiac Club" here in NC.There are a lot of guys/gals with different levels of Pontiac performance engines that could reccomend and advise you.And you do not have to drive or own a concourse Pontiac,just be a Pontiac enthusiast.We will be meeting in Salisbury ,Saturday- 6/4/05 @ 4pm-8pm,@ SIR PIZZA on Innes ST.The business will provide FREE PIZZA to club members.Hope to see you there,Roger.

[crkoester]

Roger:

Oh, I AM a member of the club (at your encouragement!). Just not involved yet - too many irons in the fire right now. Before I end up getting a powerplant I'll be talking up the local resources first, esp the guys you previously referred me to.

I know last year I kept threatening to come down to the lake and see your goats, but never managed to do it. Do you still have both the 68 and the 69 Judge?


Chris

[uneasyrider]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brian Baker:
These days, $3500 will get you a stock rebuild at most machine shops. I'm not talking about running a hone through it and slapping in new bearings and rings, I'm talking about going through it correctly. $5000 for a mild performance build is very reasonable, ESPECIALLY considering you don't have to supply any of the parts. A good used 455 block alone will go for around $500. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree. My engine cost about $5,000 total (parts and labor) and I got a good deal on the machine work and assembly from friends. There's your next goal! You must make friends with a good machinest. This thing runs SWEET. It's balanced like a Swiss watch. It's like driving a Caddy. Torque up the proverbial gazoo.

Here's what I got for $5,000 assembled,

E-heads (out of the box)

462cid (60 over 400 block stroked)

10.2:1 compression

Eagle crank and H-beam rods

Pistons = SRP

RPM manifold

Crower part # 60243 Grind # 284HDP: (2,500-6,000)

@ 0.050 228/235

479/494

1.5:1 rockers

stock 800cfm Q-jet

Hooker Super Comp headers (forget the size but needless to say they are large

[Rholmes]

Yes Chris I still have both goats.Finishing up the Judge now and getting it ready for paint.You can see the 68 in the 68/69 tech forum since repaint 2 months ago.As previously mentioned,finding a "good" machinist/shop familiar with our Pontiac engines is very important,especially when work is to be perform that exceeds stock performance(400hp) and reliable.Come up the lake anytime,talk Pontiac and have a cold one,Roger