[74gto]

I have a 750 no choke Speed Demon on my mild 406. I have not taken the car back to the track with this car, but on the street I also experience a slight stumble off idle. It seems to do it when the temp. is under 160 in the engine. Is this because of the no choke?(TOM?)I like this carb otherwise. I had a 700 holley for 10 years which now needs to be rebuilt. I switched over to a 750 vacumn Holley (I know, don't bash me too hard I've always had mechanical secondaries till now) and had problems with that carb from day one. In defense of the Holley, I never made a serious effort to tune the secondary opening spring. I bought the Demon after seeing some dyno pulls of a friend with a Holley and Demon. His Demon made about 10 hp diff. I don't know if there were tuning issues here or not, but I saw the results. Time will tell in the spring if this carb is what I'm looking for.I know the Richcreeks (Herdsclan) had problems with theirs by talking to Tom and Amy at Milan at a Royal Pontiac Race Day. I will say that out of the box, the carb makes the engine sound better and the jetting seems to be pretty close (a little rich) by the look of the plugs, but then again the car was idleing a lot and I have'nt had a chance to really blow it out. Just my .02 cents

[Tom Vaught]

The slight hesitation when cold could be either lack of choke (Choke makes the fuel curve rich), not quite enough idle feed restriction size for no choke, or you need a slightly larger shooter/
longer duration pump shot to get past the tip-in hesitation.

I would not have brought up Amy and Tom"s Demon
carb normally. There was a LOT of swearing going on on that carb over a few months. Tom finally got a new one and gave it to me out of the box. The new one was not right either. (contamination in the bowls, loose power valve, and here is the big kicker. wrong mainbody to base gasket). I put
the right gasket on the main body and the 4 corner
idle suddenly worked. This was supposed to be a
carb that the line production manager PERSONALLY
built for Tom due to all of the problem. BS! BS!
BS!

Tom eventually sold the carb to Bud Lyons after I worked on it and Bud says it worked great with a
jet change for his motor and slight tweaking.

Tom V.

[Larry Navarro]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Larry,

Barry Grant makes the Demon.

The mighty Demon is a good carb and should serve you well as it has adjustable air bleeds and the
annular boosters you mentioned along with screw
in emulsion tube bleeds. Tom V.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
one comforting quote, as i'm trying to keep an optimistic look through the entire series of posts. should have my carb tomorrow(second day air).

[Tom Vaught]

Larry,

Have seen SEVERAL Mighty Demons used on Blower
carb Magazine articles and all say no issues.
Expensive carb though. Tom V.

[Bud Lyons]

I fattend up the secondrys, bolted it on and let it rip. I have not had a chance to take the car to the track yet but it feels like it pulls harder then the Qjet I had on it.



My Rig's a little old, but that don't mean she's slow.

[herdswoman]

Tom, go ahead and bring it up. That carb had some VERY serious quality control issues and the management at Barry Grant failed to recognize that fact. Basically told us they'd send us a new carb but to not call them again. Took the new carb and it ran like crap. So we never called them, my husband looked it over, we sent it to you for a complete tear-down, you found the multiple problems with it and Barry Grant's people can just read about it on the 'net. Don't think they'll be seeing any more of our money for awhile.

Ponchopete, while I'm sorry that your customers have had troubles with their Demons, it's nice to know that it's not just us. Seems like the people we'd heard about that had Demons were very happy with them, no problems. Was beginning to think that we had some dark cloud following us around. Now runnning a $75 POS swap-meet Holley and it runs like a champ.

[all_ryze]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by herdswoman:
That carb had some VERY serious quality control issues<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I had some quality issues as well with my BG!
Had a real hard time tuning right out of the box, tore it down and found metal turnings in both primary and secondary metering blocks.
A friend of mine had the same tuning problems and found the same thing, turnings in the metering blocks!
Not what I would expect from a $600 carb!

Also heard that Jegs pulled the fuel pump line from thier catalog due to quality problems!

MOTOR CITIES FINEST
PHS Documented "REAL JUDGE"
12.53 @ 110.68 on street tires, through the mufflers and a 4 speed!!

[Skip Fix]

Sounds like how my Q jet came back from the Carb Shop years ago, metal shavings in the bowl.And that was even when Brad Urban was still there.

[Tim Corcoran]

I have always stayed away from the BG/Demon carbs as I always thought they were just over priced Holley copies. In fact there was a large law suite between Barry Grant and Holley. As a result BG had to do some design changes, mostly cosmetic to settle the suite. I disagree with the judges decision. At first BG was just tuning/modifying the Holley carbs (like the carb shop does) and as the business grew started making Holley copies then the law suite. You would think that for the money they charge for a Holley copy they would have better quality control. Some people are attracted to the Demon carbs because they are new and advertising has convinced them they are better than a Holley. So far I am not convinced

Tim C

65 LeMans, 3600lb. all steel, full interior, D-ports and a flat tappet cam, 11.01@120

[Larry Navarro]

received my demon yesterday.
very nice piece. included were an instructional video(whoopdedo) and "owners manual".
hate to tear into a new carb, but i sure do want to check for all the said, abnormalities.

[Skip Fix]

Larry , They do have the good no stick gaskets so it comes apart easily. If your car is going to hook hard I would recommend getting the jet extenesions for the secondaries, the kind the jets screw into. As it hooks gas sloshes to rear away form metering block.You have to get a notched float also.Not sure if you ordered yours with them. Not a problem with Q jets with jets at the bottom of the bowl.

[Tom Vaught]

While you are working on the rear of the carb that you just paid big bucks for, check and see
if the mighty demon has a rear power valve for me.

If it does, take it out on your drag car, Larry.
Put a plug in and go up on the jet sizes on the rear about 8 numbers. The power valve if left in will suck air long before the jets without extensions will. Good luck. Hopefully no trash
in your new carb. Tom V.

[ponchopete]

Herdswoman, Tim C., All-Ryze,
In my not so humble opinion, B/G products are simply crap. B/G technical support fits the bill well, as it is crap too. The fuel pump problem most definitely exists. In the last six months, we have had numerous complaints and problems with their fuel pumps. They have one of the worst warranty policies in the business -- you have to send your part back, they fix it, and charge you for any parts they used, even if the problem is a manufacturer defect. They will not sell repair parts for their pumps or regulators to their dealers or the end user. We recently sent back a 280 pump, as it was leaking from between the motor and housing. They repaired it, and sent a repair bill for $234.00. We sell these pumps new for $289.00! Just in case anybody needs parts for their B/G stuff, and don't want the hassle of dealing with them, I believe Product Engineering has service parts that will work in the B/G junk.
As far as the Holley lawsuit goes, to the best of my understanding, that whole deal is the reason the Demon line of carburetors came to be. Originally, along with their modified carburetors, B/G offered the "Claw" series of carburetors (SportClaw, SilverClaw, GoldClaw), which had all the same features that the Demons have now (Speed Demon, Race Demon, Race Demon RS). The Claw series used all B/G manufactured parts, but looked almost identical to a Holley. I'm told that this is what sparked the lawsuit, which, IMO, Holley was well within their right to do. Supposedly, to make Holley happy, B/G agreed to drop the Claw line of carbs and go back to the drawing boards, which produced the Demon. It's funny, because the Claw series of carbs seemed to work extremely well. The Demon carbs have had problems since day one.

"My car would be fast if it had an engine, transmission, and rear axle in it."

[455-4+1]

Tom

My 850 Annular Mighty Demon has provision for a secondary power valve but comes plugged (as all cars that leave resonably should do as you stated)

Jetting std is 80 up front and 88 rear so jetting is staggered to account for PV

Anyone out there have a 750 VS Speed demon

Was working on one today for a friend on a (gasp) 360 mopar and the secondaries would open when "winging" the throttle in neutral with a brown (heavy) spring in it. (accompanied by a bad midrange bog)

My previous experience with Holleys lead me to think maybe the check ball in the vacum pod had been left out. Upon dissassembly there was no check ball-slot nor the later style pressed in brass restriction with a drilled hole (0.038" on the old Holley one sitting in front of me). The passage is around 1/4" in diameter?????.

They (BG) also state the exact starting opening points and full open points as the holley VS models for the different spring colours which is fine except that the installed height of the springs is some 4mm greater in the Demon causing the spring to be preloaded less ????? (ie Earlier opening point)

Unable to figure out how this could be I emailed BG and got a one line reply stating "based on the orifice size going through the main body we do not use a check ball in our vacuum pods." yet the pick up in the main body looks the same as in the old 750 Holley the demon replaced!!! The Holley uses a checkball-slot and runs like a cut cat with a yellow (light) spring

If anyone has a VS demon that runs well could they please check if it has a pressed in brass restrictor in the vacum passage in the main body of the vacum pod like the old Holleys

Thanks in advance

Working on going faster!!!

[SCOTT ESTERLE]

I deal with Barry Grant almost on a daily bases being i work in the warranty dept. I don't have much of an issue with them. It might be they take care of us & our cust do to the large volume we sell of there products. The reason they want to handle the warr is do to the carbs are pretty much a custom piece even though you can get them off the shelf. We were testing rtned carbs at Summit & over a 6month period we found that very few had a problem it was generally installation error. When a company gets a product back that isn't defective why should they eat it because they certaintly can't re-sell it as new.

[all_ryze]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ponchopete:
It's funny, because the Claw series of carbs seemed to work extremely well<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Poncho,
The problems I was refering to were on the silver claws. 2 claws, both with metal turnings!
Once clean, they tuned real well, kind of like a Holley!

MOTOR CITIES FINEST
PHS Documented "REAL JUDGE"
12.53 @ 110.68 on street tires, through the mufflers and a 4 speed!!

[Tom Vaught]

Quote:

"It's funny, because the Claw series of carbs seemed to work extremely well. The Demon carbs have had problems since day one."

Holley made a LOT of money off of Mr. Grant for his "extreme resemblance" of the Claw carbs to
the Holley carbs. He thought they looked different
enough but a group of 12 people thought a little
"differently" LOL!

As the claws were based on exactly the same design
calibration specs, you would hope that the homework Holley did would translate to the claw
piece of metal and work well too.

Scott, because he works for Summit is caught in the middle.

My opinion, NO CARB should have trash inside it!
Be it Weber, Rochester, Holley, Demon, etc.

Hard for Owner installation to get metal shavings inside a carb. Scott. Tom V.

[herdswoman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Larry Navarro:
received my demon yesterday.
very nice piece. included were an instructional video(whoopdedo) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Larry, hang on to that video. It is most useful on sleepless nights. Zzzzzzzzzz........

Scott E., that's exactly the kind of thing I was talking about....Summit with their high volume has seen very few problems with the Demons they sell and to the best of my knowledge, neither have the guys at KRE. Makes me wonder what it really going on down there in Ga. True enough, BG cannot sell returned merchandise as new. But in our case, they shouldn't have sold it in the first place. We put a lot of time and money into ours to make it as it should have been when it came off the production line.

Once again, Tom V. is right. Kinda hard for installation error to get those metal shavings (or the wrong gasket) inside. Gotta wonder though, Tom , would have described those gaskets as no-stick and easy to remove?

I get so warm and fuzzy inside just reading this, I have half a mind to forward this thread to those fine folks in Georgia..

[This message was edited by herdswoman on January 04, 2003 at 06:13 PM.]

[SCOTT ESTERLE]

I agree there should not be any metal shavings in the carb. You are paying top dollar that thing should perform out of the box. Holley is not flawless i just took one of there new carbs apart Friday & it was full of silver particles from that nice silver finish they put on the carb. What i suggest is just like the oil pumps take it apart & check the float settings & everything before you run it. That is what i do.

[Larry Navarro]

took the carb apart this evening and found nothing, no shavings or any other problems.
seems like a very well prepared piece out of the box. the secondary block has a plug for the pwr valve and the jetting is 80pri. and 88sec.
bad thing is that i don't have time to put it to use on the car, maybe not till next weekend.
business and related travel are gonna keep me occupied for a while.