[usbajs]

Hi All:
I'm new to this forum and I need some help. A local dealer is selling a 70 GTO and asking $10,000 for it. A friend and I did a quick inspection and some VIN decoding and it appears real and complete. Its got the basic 400 with auto, air and full power. engine compartment is clean and shows evidence of new parts/hoses, etc. interior is in good shape and complete but needs thorough cleaning and new headliner. car needs new paint job, is missing some trim pieces and, my giggest concern, has rust-through in areas on trunk deck under rear window. dealer claims engine/tranny recently redone. odometer shows 118,000. i haven't got it on lift yet but floors appear solid with possible exception of trunk. although its base GTO someone appears to have tried to make it judge clone because it has judge wing and stripes. is price reasonable? how much work/cost am i looking at, especially since most of it will need to be farmed out? thanx!

[satman]

I don't claim to be an expert, but I do surf around, watching what people are buying and/or selling our cars for. I found this interesting item on Ebay. I would say yours sounds like it is in a least twice as good a shape LOL

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1

[usbajs]

u got that right, satman. the one i'm looking at is fully driveable and complete. i guess the major difference is mine is a standard GTO, where the one on e-bay may b a ram3 judge. that one probably has bigger upside but is in much worse shape now.

[getmygoat]

I don't think the judge is a good comparison.

Anyway, one thing to consider is how much would the car be worth, once you fixed all the problems? How far underwater would you be? The car with a decent paint job is probably worth around 17k, assuming matching numbers, everything works, etc.

10k is probably about right, although 7-8k would be a safer deal.

[tp's lemans sport]

http://216.178.81.108/forums/showthread.php?t=416980

Check out this link saw this car in person believe it went for 11K. No visable rust from above, good interior, no A/C. Looked like a nice driver.

[4SLASH6]

tp, car is nice in that thread but the replys were more fun to read

[tp's lemans sport]

Good used deck lid $300 plus shipping add $100. Headliner installed 400. if you have the bows. Patch panel for the rear window $75. How's the hood any bubbles? The weatherstripping is it dried and cracked. If it is cracked check the underside of doors for any rust through. Once you get into it you will find much more. If you don't get rid of the rust it will come back. Trim pieces are expensive and some pieces are not being reproduced. I would plan on a minimum 10K if no mechanical work is required.

[usbajs]

Thanks for the advice. I took a closer look at the car yesterday, although the dealer wasn't around so I couldn't start it. Car has vinyl roof, which is shot and shows some bubbling underneath. I figure i'd rip that off anyway. Body shows evidence of some repainting/touchup but car would still need paint job. Endura nose has no cracks but paint has cracked on it in places. Chrome headlight bezels and rear bumper are intact but show some surface rust/pitting. Chrome wheel moldings and under door molding are missing. Rally wheels r there and complete but tires are barely legal. Interior looks complete and everything in good shape except for headliner. driver seat cushion could stand to b replaced but no biggie. i think the metal strip on decklid behind rear window would have to b cut out and new metal welded in because it has some rust through. from what i can see underneath body looks solid. i need to still get car on lift. i did call dealer and he said he'd take 9K "but not a penny less." I'm tempted but i don't want to get upside down on car, either.

[slowgto]

I would pass on it. $9K may be fair, but you can find plenty of cars that dont have that rust in the back window. If it has rust there, the trunk and floors, and maybe the windshield area have problems too. The price of this car is going to depend on if the motor and trans were really rebuilt too, Does he have any reciepts for that?

[carbking]

If you plan on farming out the body work and paint, why not ask your favorite bodyman to dinner; and on the way, drive by the GTO for his opinion?

Jon.

[usbajs]

i think you guys are right. i've made arrangements to get the car into a shop i trust later this week to take a good look at it. the rust damage is a major concern. i'm also going to ask to see whatever paperwork the dealer has. when i was rumaging through the glove box, i found an old insurance form from 2001 from a previous owner. i'm going to call him, as well. thanks for the tips. i'll keep everyone posted.

[notquitegto]

I think $10K is way too much for what is quickly shaping out to be a project. I bought my #'s matching 70 project last year for $6200. It had everything and all the body panels were rust free or replace w NOS parts. I saw it in bare metal before I bought it. However, I shopped for a year before I found that one. Old body work scares me. I'd rather have a weatherbeaten, surface rust ridden original. At least I know I'm not going to find 30lbs of bondo everywhere.

Its your money, but be careful. Everything you described could amount to a huge can of worms down the road. Of course, the operative word is "could." Once the body work is done, you're going to spend alot of $$$ getting everything in top shape unless its a daily driver. Consider that before dropping 9k

Mike
Mike

[mrrat1]

I agree with notquite, seems you will be in for alot of $$ out of your pocket for basically restoring a run of the mill 70. You should be able to get more car for 10K. The way gas is going up more cars will be hitting the market this fall. I say look for a better car. Dave K.

[TJH]

Originally Posted by mrrat1

The way gas is going up more cars will be hitting the market this fall. I say look for a better car. .

Yeah, right. Newsflash- most everyone buying and restoring GTO's could not possibly care less about gas prices. I know I don't. Some with the concours restorations will never even drive the cars once they are finished, so why should gas prices matter?
This isn't the mid-seventies, when these cars were still being used as everyday transportation. These cars are now collector pieces, and are not used as everyday beaters. That being the case, gas prices will in no way affect sales prices, or availability.
SUV's, on the other hand, are another matter entirely.

[usbajs]

Hi All:
As promised, here's further info on that '70 GTO I'm looking at. I finally got it up on a lift and had a good look at it. Car is in fairly decent shape, except one of the exhaust pipes is dented (maybe from hitting something or bottoming out?) and, my major concern -- the trunk floor is rusted out. dealer says he has the new floor pans for $500 and $1,000 to install. He claims he paid $8,600 for it in N.J. and drove it back here to upstate NY. Car started right up and idled well. Air seems to b working. Dealer says car is all-original -- including engine/tranny, etc. -- "as far as he knows" but he has no original paperwork other than registration. I threw a "6-7K" price at him and he balked, then said he'd take maybe $9,500 and throw in floor-pans. I'm thinking car needs minimum 10K to get it into good-excellent, but certainly not show, shape. i'm sure it will end up that, but probably more! I told dealer i'd think about it after i got PHS on car and he told me he was "sure we could work something out." I told him maybe if he did some of the restoration as part of deal. He told me he currently has 18 GTOs and thats all he collects and restores. i don't know -- car may b good deal, but maybe a nightmare! u guys r the experts...ur thoughts?

[notquitegto]

Generally, as a rule, cars don't rust out in one spot only. If the trunk is shot, other parts of the body are probably filled with who knows what. Check to see if the serial number on the front of the block, matches the end of the vin. That will tell you if the block at least matches. Beyond that, start comparing date codes. Run those PHS docs, you never know when you've stumbled on something that's special. Finally, don't forget, this guy is a dealer. He wants to get you hooked, but at his price. Also, don't have this joker do your body work. Go to a professional or do it yourself. If not, he'll suck you in for far more than 9500.

Mike

[tp's lemans sport]

If he has 18 GTO's and is willing to deal on this one, it can only mean that he would need to put to much into this one to turn a profit. I would stay away from this car. If you have 10K to spend plus another 10K to put in restoration that means that you can get a nice car that has no rust issues. There is a lot GTO/ Lemans in that price range you can get a much better value if you start looking. If you want to take it to the next level for 25K to 30K you can get a great car and just drive and enjoy.

[ctspurr]

Originally Posted by usbajs

Hi All:
As promised, here's further info on that '70 GTO I'm looking at. I finally got it up on a lift and had a good look at it. Car is in fairly decent shape, except one of the exhaust pipes is dented (maybe from hitting something or bottoming out?) and, my major concern -- the trunk floor is rusted out. dealer says he has the new floor pans for $500 and $1,000 to install. He claims he paid $8,600 for it in N.J. and drove it back here to upstate NY. Car started right up and idled well. Air seems to b working. Dealer says car is all-original -- including engine/tranny, etc. -- "as far as he knows" but he has no original paperwork other than registration. I threw a "6-7K" price at him and he balked, then said he'd take maybe $9,500 and throw in floor-pans. I'm thinking car needs minimum 10K to get it into good-excellent, but certainly not show, shape. i'm sure it will end up that, but probably more! I told dealer i'd think about it after i got PHS on car and he told me he was "sure we could work something out." I told him maybe if he did some of the restoration as part of deal. He told me he currently has 18 GTOs and thats all he collects and restores. i don't know -- car may b good deal, but maybe a nightmare! u guys r the experts...ur thoughts?

Let me tell you something. I know there are better deals out there. mine is a Lemans but I got a miracle of a deal it's a 72 Lemans and I paid $100 for it. I am trying to find my camera so I can take a picture of it. It has very minimal rust and runs good. The seats are perfect the trunk is absolutely not rusted out. If I wanted to turn it into a "GTO Clone or Judge (I know judges were not built in 72) it would probally cost maybe $6000. And I would probally be able to turn arouns and sell it for $10000 or more( I would never LOL). So look around and listen to these guys they know their stuff!

[usbajs]

i think you guys are probably right. i am going to order the PHS but i don't believe car is anything but garden variety goat. vinyl roof is dead giveaway, as far as i'm concerned, unless you know of anyone out there that would put that roof on a judge! I think someone tried to turn car into judge clone because car lacks chrome trim and has side stripes and rear wing. the VIN does indicate, however, that the car is definitely a GTO. i did take some pics of car and i'll try to show them to you all ASAP. i'm thinking, unless dealer offers me killer deal, that i'll keep looking. thanks

[allmycarsrjunk]

Lot's of Judges came with vinyl tops.