[Region Warrior]

Originally Posted by Junkyard Dog

Can't you fix the distributor gear issue with a .030 hole in one plug there?

Yes, even Pontiac did it on the 455SD's

[Region Warrior]

Since 77, i've changed from 30w(summer)10w30(winter), to 10w40, to 10w30 to 20w(year round), to Mobil 1 5w30 or Valvoline synthetic in my FB's.
30w Valvoline mineral for break-in's.
Fresh builds close to the minimum spec side.
An extra qt in the stock style pan.
60lb pump pushing 63k to65k rpm's occasionally.
I change filter and add 1 qt. between 3-4k if looking dark using syn's unless driven hard often. Filter's always clean.
10w30 Valvoline in family cars. 3k or more between o/c.
I've been told it takes 20 minutes of highway driving to burn off moisture contaminates. My wifes car(GM 3.8), which only goes about 4 miles at a time dailey, gets the oil darker/smelly much sooner. My girls car(GM 3.1) gets driven harder/longer/more, and stays cleaner. Both have over 100k.
I stay away from any sticky oils, like Pennsoil 20w50 racing. I know alot of people use it without problems, but i want good flow. If it sticks, how good of flow can it have?
I've let older vehicles sit(run occasionall), 1 to 2 years without changing mineral oil, if it looks clean and smells normal.
Never had a failure or excessive wear do to oil. No oil burners.
I guess if you maintain your vehicle as needed, reguardless of multi vis, straight, mineral, synthetic, you should'nt have any worries.
I agree syn's will leak more, especially when changing from mineral on a higher milage engine. This tells me it's more slippery and flows better.

[Herb Hagan]

Viscosity is the oil flow characteristic value...not the lubricating quality.

Herb

[P@blo]

I just thought i would post this as It was included with my Lazer cam recommendation reply.




Under pressure from the major Detroit automakers, the engine oil manufacturers have removed the zinc additive from engine oil. The really bad news is that this increases camshaft and follower failure rates enormously during, and after the break-in time. If you can find a zinc additive for engine oil, that helps greatly. GM's EOS break-in lube has been a faithful option, too. I understand that Valvoline and Kendall racing oils that are labeled "not for highway use" still have the zinc in them.

There have been no changes in camshaft or follower materials or heat treatment from ANY of us in the racing aftermarket. The increased failure rates are due to the missing zinc in addition to the usual assembly related problems we've been discussing the last thirty years or so. Keeping open spring pressures as low as possible is now more important than ever.

[David Holmberg]

Valvoline makes a racing oil, can't remember the name right now but it's in a silver bottle. It's for "racing only" as it's higher in zinc... A few friends and a trusted engine builder use it and have had great luck with it.

[Mach5]

Diesel oil such as 15W40 Chevron Delo and Mobil Delvac have high levels of zinc, and are also rated for use in gasoline engines.

[mtnxtreme1963]

I also got the same reccomendation from Lazer on my cam reply quote, and I am running the 15/40 in my diesel ( can't rememeber which brand ) and noticed it contained zinc, don't know if it contains as much as the "for racing only" oils though, and since it seems to be such an issue or, I would use it if I could confirm it, that much less differnt oils on my shelf would be nice!

[P@blo]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok this will help you guys determine what oil has what you need in it, I hope this sheds some light on the whole Zinc issue.

The Data:


Listed alphabetically --- indicates the data was not available

Brand VI Flash Pour %ash %zinc
20W-50
AMSOIL 136 482 -38 <.5 ---
Castrol GTX 122 440 -15 .85 .12
Exxon High Performance 119 419 -13 .70 .11
Havoline Formula 3 125 465 -30 1.0 ---
Kendall GT-1 129 390 -25 1.0 .16
Pennzoil GT Perf. 120 460 -10 .9 ---
Quaker State Dlx. 155 430 -25 .9 ---
Red Line 150 503 -49 --- ---
Shell Truck Guard 130 450 -15 1.0 .15
Spectro Golden 4 174 440 -35 --- .15
Spectro Golden M.G. 174 440 -35 --- .13
Unocal 121 432 -11 .74 .12
Valvoline All Climate 125 430 -10 1.0 .11
Valvoline Turbo 140 440 -10 .99 .13
Valvoline Race 140 425 -10 1.2 .20
Valvoline Synthetic 146 465 -40 <1.5 .12
20W-40
Castrol Multi-Grade 110 440 -15 .85 .12
Quaker State 121 415 -15 .9 ---
15W-50
Chevron 204 415 -18 .96 .11
Mobil 1 170 470 -55 --- ---
Mystic JT8 144 420 -20 1.7 .15
Red Line 152 503 -49 --- ---
5W-50
Castrol Syntec 180 437 -45 1.2 .10 .095 % Phosphor
Quaker State Synquest 173 457 -76 --- ---
Pennzoil Performax 176 --- -69 --- ---
5W-40
Havoline 170 450 -40 1.4 ---
15W-40
AMSOIL 135 460 -38 <.5 ---
Castrol 134 415 -15 1.3 .14
Chevron Delo 400 136 421 -27 1.0 ---
Exxon XD3 --- 417 -11 .9 .14
Exxon XD3 Extra 135 399 -11 .95 .13
Kendall GT-1 135 410 -25 1.0 .16
Mystic JT8 142 440 -20 1.7 .15
Red Line 149 495 -40 --- ---
Shell Rotella w/XLA 146 410 -25 1.0 .13
Valvoline All Fleet 140 --- -10 1.0 .15
Valvoline Turbo 140 420 -10 .99 .13
10W-30
AMSOIL 142 480 -70 <.5 ---
Castrol GTX 140 415 -33 .85 .12
Chevron Supreme 150 401 -26 .96 .11
Exxon Superflo Hi Perf 135 392 -22 .70 .11
Exxon Superflo Supreme 133 400 -31 .85 .13
Havoline Formula 3 139 430 -30 1.0 ---
Kendall GT-1 139 390 -25 1.0 .16
Mobil 1 160 450 -65 --- ---
Pennzoil PLZ Turbo 140 410 -27 1.0 ---
Quaker State 156 410 -30 .9 ---
Red Line 139 475 -40 --- ---
Shell Fire and Ice 155 410 -35 .9 .12
Shell Super 2000 155 410 -35 1.0 .13
Shell Truck Guard 155 405 -35 1.0 .15
Spectro Golden M.G. 175 405 -40 --- ---
Unocal Super 153 428 -33 .92 .12
Valvoline All Climate 130 410 -26 1.0 .11
Valvoline Turbo 135 410 -26 .99 .13
Valvoline Race 130 410 -26 1.2 .20
Valvoline Synthetic 140 450 -40 <1.5 .12
5W-30
AMSOIL 168 480 -76 <.5 ---
Castrol GTX 156 400 -35 .80 .12
Chevron Supreme 202? 354 -46 .96 .11
Chevron Supreme Synt. 165 446 -72 1.1 .12
Exxon Superflow HP 148 392 -22 .70 .11
Havoline Formula 3 158 420 -40 1.0 ---
Mobil 1 165 445 -65 --- ---
Mystic JT8 161 390 -25 .95 .1
Quaker State 165 405 -35 .9 ---
Red Line 151 455 -49 --- ---
Shell Fire and Ice 167 405 -35 .9 .12
Unocal 151 414 -33 .81 .12
Valvoline All Climate 135 405 -40 1.0 .11
Valvoline Turbo 158 405 -40 .99 .13
Valvoline Synthetic 160 435 -40 <1.5 .12



P.S. Posted this on another post as well and was not trying to repeat myself.
__________________

[mtnxtreme1963]

Is .15 sufficient to deter these cam failures, and is there that much more protection going to .20 zinc

[suprchikn]

Hey Pablo put that little video of you throwing a tantrum back on or I wont read any more of your posts. Ray please

[hgerhardt]

One thing to remember is that GM specifically recommends AGAINST 10W-40. Something about valve stem deposits, if memory serves correctly.

[P@blo]

LOL...It isn't me in that avatar, but none the less back by demand.

[suprchikn]

YOU THE MAN! Did I type you? I meant me. And ya know what, your sig kills me. One of these days I'll have to read whats in the threads. Thanks Buddy! Ps your car looked real nice too!

[Rx:GTO daily]

Just my non-technical 2 cents: 70 Ram Air III run 10-40 Syntec---10-40 cuz the manual calls for it and synthetic, just in case there is any true benefit-obviously I'm taking a chance that there is! The price BITES, but she's worth it!!
1983 Porsche 928S, ALL aluminum V8 w/ 1/4 million miles (never rebuilt)!!! No smoke, no burn! Can go 5K without adding oil. Change every 3-5K depending on time I have to spare. Have used 10-30 dino based, cheap local brand (MacMillan?? somethin like that) since 91K..can't vouch for what previous owner may have used. My mechanic..very well respected for talents/fairness with German/Italian (yea Ferrari/Lambo)/European street & race cars, has always said, "it really doesn't matter that much (for street applications!) what you use, just so long as it's always fresh and clean." Of course the newer cars that require synthetics, get it, no question! Knocking on wood!!...all I can say is we never find any nasty messages in the oil and as of 6 months ago she still holds original factory compression in all 8. And, yes, for most of those miles, I drove it like I stole it! I like to think this proves what he told me 160K ago, that I don't have to spend big bucks on oil, just keep it fresh! And since she holds 9 quarts I'm extra glad I'm not filling it with synthetics! German engineering? (maybe, but at 250K I doubt it), proof of the importance of proper maintanence (most likely!).
Now, with that in mind, even I would have to ask: why bother with synthetics in the goat? Simply because there is no question that the oiling and cooling and most every other system (except the freakin fuse box!) in the 928 is far more efficient and more advanced than the much older GTO. So, I give the GTO EVERY possible advantage that I can! Plus, most importantly, I love the ol' goat alot more than the old Porsche!!!

[Jack Gifford]

Thanks Pablo for all that information. And I'm pleased to see that my old standby Kendall GT-1 has at least SOME zinc in it.

[242177P]

One thing to consider is drain back time. I ran some 50 weight once, and was kinda surprised to see that the oil pressure (cold, fast idle) had a small 'hiccup'. I figured that the thick oil just wasn't getting back to the pump quick enough? After changing back to 30 weight, it was gone. Readings were taken from the plug by the distibutor, using 3' of braided AN-6 if that helps.

[mtnxtreme1963]

On the zinc issue, does anybody know how much we really need?

[P@blo]

Im not sure what would be an ideal ammount but I would pick an oil with the highest zinc content just to be safe. The Valvoline race looks like its among the higher zinc containing oils but have switched to Rotella T 15W40 diesel oil for my 406. Thanks for all your posts, great information guy's. Brent

[SRR]

Your prostrate gland contains lots of zinc...so if it's good for the nads it's good for the oil!

[Half-Inch Stud]

Why are the alkaline metals good at lubing sliding metals?:
Lithium Grease
Moly-grease, moly disulfide
Zinc in suspension
then there is the suspended teflon stuff trying to act like the akaline metal in suspension.

I think the macroscopic opinion on the microscopic activity is:

The added metal/teflon in suspension behaves like many banana peels between the cam lobe and lifter base. Sooooo, what really matters is that those sliding surfaces get lots of little banana peel pieces crammed into their hard-metal poors. Like a clogged file - it won't be able to abrade anything.

So, I suggest we could add 80/90 Weight Gear Oil ("the Good stuff") to our crankcase at the ratio of 1cup for 5quarts for a 1:20 ratio. I dunno the % "banana peel" material in suspension, but I do know that rear pinion teeth outlast cam&lifters surfaces 2:1 in terms of sliding cycles yet must carry 15:1 in terms of PSI load. HIS