[rfb92345]

Want to design an in pan windage tray. Need som help. We are using a deep sump stock type pan, but we are open to mods.

[Jagtec1]

I've seen a Canton tray modified and welded into a pan.

[Jack Gifford]

I don't know that there's any on-the-shelf in-pan tray available. If you're going to fabricate one, maybe you'd want to consult with Hamburger's. They designed and built the tray in the dry sump of my hemi. It's a perforated aluminum deal that seems to work really well.

[Skip Fix]

Here's a picture of Steve Coombs new Canton with welded in scraper and bolt in windage screen.

[Brian Baker]

Steve's bolt-in windage screen follows the lead from pans I've seen from Hamburger, etal. The "Pro Stock" pan I purchased for my funny car is of similar construction. It's a sound and proven method of installing the windage screen. That scraper on the other hand is not a good idea, IMHO. There's no way you can fit it for proper clearance so that the scraper actually works.

[Skip Fix]

Brian, I think even Steve will agree on not being able to ultra close fitting of the scraper BUT even Hamburger and most other pan makers have a single straight edge scraper welded in most of their high end pans that is no where near as close as this contoured one, and they feel they are worth adding. I personally would have liked to see a little more welding for the scraper to the pan that the three welds I see. Maybe some taped on poster board paper could tel where its close or not.

Shoot the scraper portion of the factory windage trays is further away, yet the oil splash is part of the vibration that causes the cracks there.

[BVR421]

Originally Posted by Brian Baker

That scraper on the other hand is not a good idea, IMHO. There's no way you can fit it for proper clearance so that the scraper actually works.

Fit first with index marks then weld?

[screamingchief]

If you notice the location of the scraper (ie. flush with the pan rail) and think about it a second,its not much different from fitting a block mounted scraper.

And you could easily check its clearance by mocking up a cardboard templet to see just how close it is.

The difference would amount to maybe the thickness of the gasket used +/- just a tiny bit,so just use the gasket underneath the templet while mocking it up to check clearance.

I think it would be fine by looking at it.

Looks nice!

[Jack Gifford]

Why no windage screen in the front half of the Canton?

[Brian Baker]

I've yet to see any pan from Hamburger or a like manufacturer that had any type of scraper attached to the pan as you described...but that is not to say they don't exist. If you can get all portions of said scraper to within .020"-.025" (which is what's required for it to work) while having it attached to the pan itself as shown, then you would really have something. The problem with attaching it to the pan however, is that once the pan is on, you have no way to verify the clearance across the entire length of the scraper. This can only mean one thing...you have to install it with some "breathing room" to ensure that the scraper is far enough away so as not to contact the crank or rods...once you do that, the scraper is rendered ineffective.

[Skip Fix]

I agree with you on being able to get the clearances tight Brian 100%, and the tighter the better for function. I've also read where scrapers without a kickout don't work that well either, need it for the oil to go to. The only perfect way I guess would be install scraper on the block, fit for clearance as each rod stroke combination will be different then drop pan on mark scraper/pan for location, then weld to pan. Hard to do long diatance at Canton.

I had gotten a Pontiac scraper from Warrior years ago, the first one I had seen like these. Tried to test fit it 0n a 400 and it must have had 0.500 clearance!

[Steve C.]

I sent Canton a crank scraper I bought from Paul Spotts. It was origionly meant to be sandwiched between the block and oil pan and has holes in it that correspond to the bolt holes in the pan. When I take a old scraper I have on hand and align it with the bolt holes it matches the leading edge of the welded in scraper, so the fit will be close. We do expect there may be the need to trim it. Also, you can't see it but the scraper has bracing under it.

The previous pan I got from them with a screen installed covered most of the pan length. I was surprised to see that this one only covers the back half.

This pan is their basic #15-450 Road Race pan that has been modified. It normally comes with a 7" sump depth. But with the addition of the screen and scraper I had them increase the sump depth to 8-1/8" to increase the capacity from 7 qts to 8 qts. Also had them add a plug on the side to accomodate a oil temp sending unit and provisions for the dip stick to be directly in the pan.

[Skip Fix]

Look at Moroso #20191 here. Alos listed in desription of Hamburgers econo pans is built in scraper needing no fitting.

http://www.moroso.com/catalog/catego...?catcode=11002

[Brian Baker]

Steve, I'm curious as to what method you're going to employ to check for clearance on the scraper so you can trim it.

[Tom Vaught]

Quote:

"I had gotten a Pontiac scraper from Warrior years ago, the first one I had seen like these. Tried to test fit it 0n a 400 and it must have had 0.500 clearance!"

You got that right Skip, I had one of those long enough to throw it in the trash!

Tom V.

[Steve C.]

Brian, I don't have a clue and that's why the engine builder gets the big bucks You, or anyone have any suggestions ?

We, and many others, have used the bolt on crank scrapers sandwiched between the block and pan before with no issues. For me the last three or fiur motors have used them.

[DiamondJim]

Where is the dip stick? Seems to me it is a lot easier to mount the scraper between the pan and block. Took me less than 30 minutes to fit mine to .020 on all the throws/blades. How about one of those scopes the Proctologist uses? You could slide it into the oil drain hole with a little K/Y! -J/K -Jim

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

Brian, I don't have a clue and that's why the engine builder gets the big bucks You, or anyone have any suggestions ?

We, and many others, have used the bolt on crank scrapers sandwiched between the block and pan before with no issues. For me the last three or fiur motors have used them.

Not a clue, Steve. That's why I asked. I've used the bolt on scraper sandwhiched between the block and pan as well. Took quite a bit of trial fitting and trimming on the bench grinder to get the desired .020"-.022" clearance.

Who set up the initial measurements for installing the scraper to the pan?

[Skip Fix]

I've come up with the solution! Assemble short block. Fit a stand alone scraper for clearance. Reference it to the pan, pull it off and fit the pan scraper to the clearanced one! I've got an extra non Warrior one you can use Steve.

Actually you can get a used human flexible fiberoptiscope with some broken fibers for around $500 to look down motors.

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by Skip Fix

I've come up with the solution! Assemble short block. Fit a stand alone scraper for clearance. Reference it to the pan, pull it off and fit the pan scraper to the clearanced one! I've got an extra non Warrior one you can use Steve.

I wouldn't trust this method. We're talking about a clearance where if it's .010" too tight it can possibly contact rotating parts, and if it's .010" too loose, it's ineffective. This is akin to Ray using Playdough to check for piston to valve clearance on his high HP nitrous engine.