[Hitman]

I have heard several theroies on what the vibration in my car could be from rear end to front end. I was out over the weekend with my friend looking for a project for him and ran across a guy that owns a garage near here that had a 67 Tempest out for sale. I was explaining the problem to him and he told me my bushings were probably shot and the car is doing what a grocery cart does and the front wheels wobble in and out when I get up to speed.

Would that be the bushings and not the ball joints? He also proceeded to tell me that there is a certain angle your spindles have to sit in alignment with the upper and lower control arms and that also could be the reason I rub on the innner fender in the front when I turn. I thought it was cause the tires were to tall. He said if I buy the parts that he would do the labor for $400. Does that seem high to install ball joints and bushings? And of course I will have to take it down and have it aligned but will bushings cause that much havock?

[BILTIT]

I think its too much, but thats just me. I'd do it for $200!!

[chipster]

I would take it to a good alignment shop first, and ask for an alignment. The first thing they will do is check the bushings, ball joints, tie rod ends, center link, and idler arm for wear, and they will tell you exactly what needs to be replaced, not "probably"
I have never seen worn front end parts cause a vibration, I would think that you would be getting some pulling or wandering too if that was the case. Do you feel the vibration in the steering wheel?

[1Badbird]

two totally different animals, but i work at a bmw/mini dealership and 90% of our vibration complaints are tracked down to bad control arm bushings, other ten percent consisting of alignments, balance issues, bad tires, bent rims etc

[69lm69gp]

Originally Posted by 1Badbird

two totally different animals, but i work at a bmw/mini dealership and 90% of our vibration complaints are tracked down to bad control arm bushings, other ten percent consisting of alignments, balance issues, bad tires, bent rims etc

Back when I worked at a Pontiac/Dodge dealership I never saw bad control arm bushing cause a vibration then again I never saw a bad control arm bushing. But I was working on cars/trucks that where mostly less that 10 years old not 25+ years old. In my experance 90% of vibrations are tire/wheel related, 5% worn/broken suspension components, 5% driveline, and 0% alignment.

That being said when I got my first car (69 Grand Prix) it would vibrate violently above 60 untill the upper control arm bushings were replaced.

[Hitman]

It is strange. And there have been many items discussed. It is funny also that when I turn the wheel and go usually most cars will turn the wheels back to center for you without having to turn it back, this car will not. I guess it it better to just change it all out, hell, its all 38 years old anyway. The vibration is like a wobble like 69lm69gp is talking about.

[69lm69gp]

Originally Posted by Hitman

It is funny also that when I turn the wheel and go usually most cars will turn the wheels back to center for you without having to turn it back, this car will not.

The steering wheel returning to center is mostly a function of positive caster. As most (if not all) cars built before the 70's used negitive caster so they don't have the steering return you are used to from newer cars.

At what speeds does this problem occur?


Caster explained
http://www.familycar.com/alignment.htm

[Hitman]

The problem starts at about 55-65 mph. It is weird. Smooth as silk up to those speeds. It has had new wheels, tires, ujoints, centerlink, idler arm, new springs, shocks, and inner and outer tie rod ends. The only thing left are the ball joints and bushings and the rear upper and lower arms and of course rear end rebuild and driveshaft balance. I even bought a rear end and swapped axles and put in new axle bearings and wheel bearings in the front and that did not fix it. I know the toe in and toe out is off due to the front end work and I know that the wheel sits in at the top, I just figured it needed to be aligned but after reading about bushings I figure well hell, I might as well try that next.

[kustom66]

i do alignments all day at a local mom and pop shop and it sounds like either the wheels are bent or the tires are out of round or not balanced properly.
unless you have severely worn out suspension parts i would look their first.

[68FB400]

If the ball joints and control arm bushings are original and you've already replaced everything else, go ahead and replace them too. It may not be the direct cause of your problem, but they certainly are not helping.

I agree with 69lm69gp, 90% of vibration problems come from tire/wheels. If your suspension is loose you may be getting uneven wear patterns in the tires thus causing the vibrations.

When you replaced the wheels/tires, was there any improvement?

[Hitman]

it did nothing when I changed the wheels and tires. Same problem at the same speed. I'll change out the ball joints and bushing and see what happens. I'm changing the rally 2's for some steel wheels and poverty caps anyway so I will get new tires and try it again. The "new" wheels and tires I have on there are used but I was told they were balanced and ready to go.

[69lm69gp]

The upper control arms are easy enough to check. Just open the hood and look at them. If you see chunks of rubber missing the bushings need to be replaced.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/auto...t/1272406.html

[vidguy]

I'm with 1 Bad Bird
I have a BMW and It developed a shimmy. I replaced the 4 Control arms/bushings and it is now completely gone. The bushings had the smallest of tears in them but at 55 MPH the car shook noticeably...
Well known issue.

I would think that if his ball joints or center link are worn enough the car would definately shake..
I had a MAZDA once that had an out of round tire that shook the car to death. Tried lots of $tuff..
Took an "Old Geezer" tire man to spot it. Moving the tire just moved the shimmy..
New tire. No Shimmy.

[SergeF]

I had very bad vibration at 50 and up. At 100 mph whole car was shacking but still ran 13.5. I tryed good know set of tires with no change. Someone change upper control arm bushings and I thought problem was somewhere else. I change all body bushings with upper solids, all new leaf springs bushing and still vibration. Finally I took lower control arms out. On a right side bushing was gone, only shell and pin were there. I install all new upper and lower moog ball joints with new bushings. Now even without alignment, worn out tie rods, center link and idler arm no more vibration. Check your control arm bushings.

[salem1912]

Hit man 400 bucks sounds like a lot at least to me. I've work on cars for a long time to me a vibration and shimmy/wobble are different. Vibrations are mostly from rims -tires -u-joints, wobble/shimmys come from worn suspension parts. If you have a floor jack these parts are not hard to check.

[vidguy]

Salem makes 2 good points. A vibration IS different then a Shimmy. Never really thought about that.

And with the car up you should be able to feel worn parts.

[Tempest]

Hitman, before you spend more money, check the ball joints and control arm bushings for yourself. To check the upper bushings, simply open the hood, and push down on the suspension while looking at the bushings. The ball joints can be checked one side at a time. Jack up the car from the lower control arm (this takes the weight of the spring off the joints) To check the upper, pull the top of the tire in and out, if there is any play, they are worn. Same process for the lowers. If you have a friend that can pul the tire in and out while you look at the joints yourself that is even better, check the lower control arm bushing while checking the lower ball joint.
Who ever checked your front end and suggested tie rod ends, center link, and idler arm, should also have seen these problems as well. If this is the problem, you will definitely feel it in the steering wheel, and, the bushings will have A LOT of play in them.
Good luck with this as I know this has been haunting you for a while.

[Hitman]

Tempest. I did exactly what you mentioned and there is play when the car is up you can move the wheel in and out placing your hands at 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock and it does this on both sides. So that tells me the ball joints are shot. Since the car has been sitting for the last 2 months you now get a creeking noise out of the bushings so I guess I have the answer to my question. I really need to buy a manual and read up on how to R&R the control arms myself since I dont have that kind of dough. Thanks guys.

[Tempest]

Hitman, don't forget to add the price of an alignment after the work is done. I don't know if this would cause a high speed vibration, but it would certainly cause the car to 'wander' down the road. Good luck

["Puddles the Pontiac"]

i had a similar problem with an old swinger i had in high school. thought it was an out of balance tire. balanced it and it got worse. i jacked the car up and spun the tires. sure enough one was still out of balance. well after racking my brain i figured the brake drum was out of balance. sure enough, it was. i balanced the tire while it was still on the car and the vibration went away for good.