[keith k]

6 or 7 years back I almost bought a very original '70 Formula RA III / 4-speed that had no other options than those. I know it had manual brakes, and I'm pretty sure it was manual steering as well...

[giles]

Lou, Think of the Formula as analagous to a GTO, while a TA is similar to a Judge. The Formula, as others have said, came pretty bare bones if no options were ordered. The basic Formula was just a base bird with an upgraded powertrain, suspension and little else (it did include a few small details over the base bird in 70, such as wheel opening moldings and the bird emblem on the nose, but that is about it). The Formula always had the biggest motor available as an option such as Ram Air III, 455HO and 455SD (there is some debate as to whether RAIV was actually available), and the car could be optioned up with every luxury item available on Firebirds such as A/C, custom trim, power windows etc.
The bottom line is that most Formulas were typically pretty basic cars, but there are a few really loaded ones spec'd by the performance buyer that did not want to the extroverted TA.

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by Dens71TA

Formulas came bare bones right off the order sheet. ...The base Formula came with a 350 2-bbl...

Careful Dan! - Your thinking of 1971-1974 (I think the standard engine in 1975/6 became the 350/4bbl, and the 350/2bbl engine became a credit option; but I'm not sure of that.);
in 1970 a Formula could only come with a 400/4bbl; the standard was an L78, and optional were L74, and the LS1 (although no Ls1 cars were ordered)

Originally Posted by RamAirThree

So a 6 cylinder was an option then or a package? P/S and P/B were standard on a Formula as well I was told and I could swear there was packages that came on a formula...

The six cylinder engine was not available as an option on the Formula in any year except 1981 - and even then it wasn't on the books for the whole year.
Power steering and power brakes were not standard in the Formula period.
You are correct that 3.73:1 gears did require a close ratio transmission; but I suspect that had an LS1 Formula been ordered there would be 3.73:1 geared Formulas w/o the M21 (The LS1 engine required the M20 for a manual transmission)
There was NO different suspension available to 1970 Formulas; the 'T/A' suspension became available as an option on the 1971-1972 Formulas though. This means all 1970 Formulas came with the same swaybars.

Also, I've seen several early formulas that came w/o gauges. - if you look in the 'redbook', you will see different pricing for some options depending on which model it was ordered for; case and point, the ralley gauges (with or without tach) were priced diferently for base/Esprit/Formula.

About some clarification, the standard steering wheel for the Fromula was a "sport" steering wheel; the base came with the standard wheel, and the Esprit also came standard with the same steering wheel as the Formula model (the base wheel was a two spoke unit, while the sport wheel was a three spoke wheel). Ironicly, the 'formula' steering wheel could only come in a car that had power steering on the option list, it didn't come standard in the model it shared it's name with.

If you are interested feel free to go to my 1970 Firebirds' cardomain page ( www.cardomain.com/id/soundjunky ), I've attempted to clarify exactly what made a 1970 Formula a "Formula"...

It's great to see you here... have you been to transamcountry.com yet? (it's a page dedicated to 1970-1981 Firebird enthusiasts)

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by giles

Lou, Think of the Formula as analagous to a GTO, while a TA is similar to a Judge. ...

I agree with this whole heartedly; I've heard it said that the Formula was the true musclecar of the Firebird lineup... The 1970 GTO came with the same standard equipment as the 1970 Formula.

In my 1971 GM (car) sales brochure, it shows that the GTO and the Formula were the only cars that could be had with the L78 engine, and it appears to me starting in 1971 the Formula mimicked the T-37 to a 'T' (no pun intended);
So when Pontiac was trying to beat the insurance companies at their own game by offering a GTO in a stealthy package, the Formula followed suit (once again having the same standard drivetrain).

[RamAirThree]

Hmmm, Ok on my car its Lucy blue with bright blue interior, I have full guage package and deluxe interior/no console with the three spoke steering wheel, but not the Formula wheel that resembles the TA wheel, I have all the chrome trim (is this an option?), P/S, P/B (front disc), and am radio, nothing else. From what I understand the manual choke is not available from the factory or dealer (will choke my friend who swore it was, no pun either lol). I also have the car on the 15" Rallyes with the 14" centercaps (which unruhjonny explained was available for more then the 6 month span of the 70), 400 Ram Air III, close ratio 4-speed and 3:73 rear. Let me ask you a question is this rare or were they just all destroyed through the years? See I have been trying to locate others for two years maybe a little more to collect information and though I found three other RAIII, I could only locate one other car like mine but badly needing resto and pro date replacement of parts such as heads, intake, exhaust manifold and the rear was swapped out. I really appreciate the help and I am sorry for being a PITA but I love the car and I just want to come correct, like I said I have been given so much bad info already its not funny, except for the fact with all my experience on so many cars that I own the one car I do not have experience restoring....lol

Thanks,
~Lou

[The Boss]

Lou,

There are several of us here with RA III Formulas - mine is very rough, but every nut and bolt original, currently it's fourth in line for a restoration - but some day.

Here's my build sheet and a current picture of the car - don't cry, it's getting saved.

Chris

[RamAirThree]

Ahhh, so this is where they are all hiding , then I am glad I found this place. Man that car of yours is sweet, glad to hear it is being restored. I just started noticing all the formulas on here, this is cool.

I think I owe unruhjonny an appology as well, we talked once but I thought he was someone else hiding behind another username. My appoligies dude. I thought you were this guy Charles from The Formula source screwing around.
Charles has a big chip on his shoulders with older American cars and the guys that drive them. We had an argument because he claims that the best run a stock Formula 400 RAIII, 4-speed and 3:73's could pull was 15.1 in the 1/4 and how all guys are jerks for restoring cars like ours when you can just go and buy an LS1 and comeout cheaper and still be faster stock on the street.
We obviously do not get along and he likes to push. So I appoligize, thats why I was so weary talking to you.

Thanks guys,
~Lou

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by RamAirThree

Ahhh, so this is where they are all hiding ...
I think I owe unruhjonny an appology as well..

Thanks for the appology Lou!; I just figured you had this great car, and you were one of those guys who wasn't interested in knowing the facts about these cars...
There is ALOT of misinformation about them, it's taken me ten years of owning my '70 to get most of my info together - and I'm still learning!!

You should make a copy of my favorite 1970 Firebird road test (The title elludes me right now), in it a T/A pulls a 13.9 1/4 mile.. that would kill his argument.

the breakdown for 1970 Formulas looks like this:
WT/M21 = 458
WT/M20 = 1,637
WT/M13 = 286
YS/M40 = 4,638
WS/M21 = 189
WS/M20 = 192
WS/M13 = 15
YZ/M40 = 293

WT = L78 400 (manual transmission engine)
YS = L78 400 (automatic transmission engine)
WS = L74 400 "ram air III" (manual transmission engine)
YZ = L74 400 "ram air III" (automatic transmission engine)

You've got 1 of 189 so equipped cars.

Your steering wheel is the 'sport' wheel, which came standard in formulas; both of my Formulas have that style wheel.

[unruhjonny]

It's good to see that your car is starting to get some attention! (I checked your cardomain page);
You've got the 1970 specific shifter ball too!

It appears as though your car does have the chrome trim package (wheel wells/ trim rings/ drip moldings/ ect) but this is one of those options that fully elludes my understanding (it could be had several differnt ways, and some of the pieces could be ordered seperatly) - Your PHS will clarify this for you.

[RamAirThree]

Thanks for understanding man, its just happened to be at the time Charles started with me, hes an old guy, so what can you do? He is very vendictive and he has already been banned by three sites that I know of. He is just a nut case I think.
Thanks for the information again, I am not sure now about the trim either, especially now after the manual choke. I am starting to think the original owner played a little with the car, I just wish it didn't feel like an eternity waiting for the PHS Packet.... lol. I actually stopped working on the car for almost 4 months now because I am trying to locate parts as I also decide what route to go with the car. I was originally heading down the path of a back to original resto, but I do not want a trailer queen and I kind of want to enjoy her a little more, so I am contimplating a stock appearance with mild mods to suspension and drivetrain. Just not sure yet. Anyway thanks again all, your a good group of guys and I appreciate all the help, I learned somethings today I couldn't seem to get straight at other sites. I guess it takes a Formula owner to help another Formula owner.

Thanks again,
~Lou

[The Boss]

The trim is Mould-Decor, code 431 - yours has it.

I'm going stock on mine, but I like my cars to be drivers, so I don't get so fussy that they belong in a trailer.

[giles]

To "the boss",
You mentioned the picture of your "build sheet". At the risk of nitpicking, I want to point out to the "newbies" that that is an invoice, not a build sheet. While the invoice is very helpful in documenting a car, the buildsheet is the pot-o-gold in documentation. Here's what each lists and doesn't list and why;

Invoice - Document from PMD to dealer to itemize what he is paying for. Lists base car and any options THAT COST MONEY. It does not list anything that is standard or was a no-cost option. It is a pretty good piece of documentation and we in the Pontiac corner of the hobby are lucky to have it. its worth the $35 to PHS.

Build sheet (or manifest)- Document generated by the car order to tell the final assembly line workers how to build the car. It lists anything that was installed at final assembly that was potentially different for each car. In other words a build sheet will not list, for example, the "idler arm" because they were the same on every F-body. Anything that was different between models or was optional equipment will be listed. The build sheet also documents the "ship-to" dealer, date of build etc. Most Van Nuys cars have a build sheet over the gas tank (mine did), while some Van Nuys and some Norwood cars have sheets in other places like under seats or carpet or behind door panels, but consider yourself lucky if you find one of these!

[eaglesan13]

Hey Ram Air Three, did you see this car? If I had the money, it would already be in my garage.

http://adcache.collectorcartraderonl...9/81256759.htm

[The Boss]

giles,

My bad, you're right, thanks for the correction.

[RamAirThree]

Hey Ram Air Three, did you see this car? If I had the money, it would already be in my garage.

Man that is sweet, thanks for the link.

~Lou

[unruhjonny]

Lou; just because you were thinkning of restoring it to stock doesn't mean it has to end up a trailer queen!

[Jim Rotella]

Welcome aboard, giles. It's great to add new people here so that we can exchange valuable information. That was an excellent illustration of the differences between build sheets and invoices, something that is often mistaken. However, I discovered on this site last month that in certain years, particularly 1975 and 1976, the factory-to-dealer invoices did include some no cost options, such as wheels and transmission choices. I had always thought that extra cost options were the only options on these invoices.

Hope this helps, Jim.

[RamAirThree]

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

Lou; just because you were thinkning of restoring it to stock doesn't mean it has to end up a trailer queen!

Yeah I know, and I definitely agree, but I am thinking just mild mods that I can easily reverse back to original and keep the original parts clean and stored. Nothing major. I was thinking more along the line of sub frame connectors being the most dramatic thing. I mean I even plan on not adding the rear spoiler alot of these birds have added on though the years, just to keep a bone stock look. The only thing I am really in turmoil with in the mod deptartment to be honest is the motor, some are saying leave it alone and rebuild it to OEM specs with hardened valves and retard the timing, others are saying lower the compression to atleast 9:5.1 , which to me seems to kill the whole idea of the engine and also a little taboo aswell.Then I am also wondering if there is anything I can do internally to the engine that will help without losing the originality. See I am not looking for pro street or anything, just the best route to enjoy the car.
When I restored my 68 convertible it was easy, I went OEM stock since it was a 400 4bbl / 4-speed and a conv it was more then enough for a car like that.
Not really a convertible man. I just always considered my Harley my convertible. But this 70, I don't know man it is my favorite and I just want to do the right thing with it. Ah decisions, decisions ....LOL.

[giles]

Lou,
If you plan to rebuild the motor, I would definitely recommend that you go the 9.5:1 route. If the issue is purely torque and power rest assured that a 9.5:1 motor running optimum spark will make more power than a 10.25:1 motor running the 5 or 6 degrees of spark retard necessary to avoid detonation. Bottom line - optimum spark produces more power than a point of compression with spark retard.
If you are a purist and want to keep the CR "stock" you can go to a cam with later IVC (like PMD "744") to reduce dynamic compression, which will help with detonation at low speed but won't help over 3500 rpm. You will still have to run a bit under optimum spark at high RPM and this raises exhaust valve and manifold temps. There is a tradeoff for everything, just depends on what you are after.
Needless to say I have a 70 RAIII that runs stock CR and some retard. When the day comes to go through the motor (unfortunately that day is 3 or 4 years out) it will become a 9.5:1 motor.

[RamAirThree]

Do you think I would be ok to play with this motor some without ruining it? I do not mean bringing the compression to 9.5:1 , I mean if I took the 9.5:1 route, could I play some with the motor?

Thanks,
~Lou