[CPL.BEYDLER]

Just got girdle back from machine shop. As you can see in the pictures, the caps are machined minimal in the center to keep as much material for more strength. You can also see the spacers between the caps and the girdle. The girdle is 1/2in thick, machined in the front to clear the oil pan, giving at least 3/16in clearance. Rotating assembly has ample clearance. This motor has a 3.75 stroke with Eagle rods. A 455 stroke would clear also. For more clearance you can machine back girdle to accept longer stroke or aluminium rods. As rfb92345 mentioned, main caps can be machined by us or we can give you the size to machine the caps. Getting longer main studs is not a problem. Any questions reply to me or rfb92345.

Thank you for checking it out.

[Brian Baker]

Cost of girdle and associated machine work to caps to make it fit?

[GTOGEORGE]

Nice piece................if the price is RIGHT!

[rfb92345]

The girdle/cap support comes out to $240. The caps and spacers have to be machined together for a proper fit. My machinist charges me $150 to fit it all to the caps properly, but that is something you should be able to get done locally. My machinist could do it for you, but you would have to pay freight to and from California. Only thing left would be the longer ARP studs and you're in business.

[Brian Baker]

Here's my 2 cents:

This girdle will do little to nothing. Here's why:

It's like 3 handicapped old men walking down a flight of stairs, and instead of each of them holding onto the handrail, they're holding onto each other. When one of them stumbles (or falls), they all will stumble (and fall).

Having said this, when one cap moves, all 3 of them will now move. This may actually do more harm than good. A better (and proper) girdle would tie the caps to the oil pan rail (just like a better way for those old men to walk down the stairs would be for them to hold onto the handrail). I would suggest checking out Steve Barcak's girdle design on his webstire, pontiacheaven.org. After doing so, you'll know why Scott Misus was quoted from a source other than Steve a price of $1800 to do a proper girdle for his future fuel block.

[rfb92345]

I appreciate your 2 cents. This thread originally started as an open forum in helping to design a suitable and affordable support. I can't say I agree with you analogy. What you are saying is that it takes the same amount of force to move 3 caps as one ? I doubt it, but then, we are all allowed our opinions. We are currently thinking of tying it into the holes in the block that are there for the other set of bolts when running 4 bolt caps. Tying into the pan rail with a one piece girdle requires a lot of material, run time and a modified oil pan. Nobody is arguing that methods effectiveness, but we all dont have the megabucks required to do that. I have talked to a few engine builders that have built more race engines that you and I will ever hope to, and they all approved of what we were doing and how we were doing it.

[CPL.BEYDLER]

to brian baker... THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX!!! what happens at high rpm's? the caps want to walk or squeez in, causing premature bearing ware. it was nice of you to write a novel about 3 old dudes , but if your have a problem with your main caps falling down stares, you should check into the IA block. this desing was made to put pre-load onto the center of the caps keeping that "round shape" integrety. causing no distortion under high rpm's. we made this for the racers to have some kind of insurance for thier bottom end and to what extent that is up to them. Yes they can buy an $1800 girdle which i bet works fine but the average joe could put that $1400 some where eles into the motor. I ran without one before but i'm now stepping up into the 7500 rpm range and if my crank is at th 600ft. mark i'll buy ya a beer

[Brian Baker]

If you were to view the caps at high rpm under a strobe light, you would see that they "wave" fore and aft in the block (like an undulating flag in the breeze). I used my analogy of the old guys on STAIRS (not stares) so that a layman could understand the concept of what the caps are doing, and what your brace will do when they're all tied together. You can call it a "novel" all you want.

Preloading the center caps so they stay round? Don't the cap fasteners already do that? All your brace is doing is tying all of them together, which is not a bad idea...provided you anchor them to something else besides each other. Anchoring them to the outer bolt holes for a 4-bolt cap might be a marked improvement.

7500 rpm with a 2-bolt block and your girdle? Let me know what it's like to drive over your crankshaft at 600'...I hear it can be a real character builder.

Where's our resident "engineer" 1/2" stud? I'd love to hear what he has to say on this topic.

[CPL.BEYDLER]

this is a 2+2=4 product, why are you getting 5

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by CPL.BEYDLER

this is a 2+2=4 product, why are you getting 5

First you say "think outside the box" and now you come up with this? What do you mean by a "2+2=4 product"? Please explain.

[misterp266]

I'm with you Brian.
If you want to reduce the movement of the caps, why tie them to something that's moving? Ask Pontiac Jack how his Hemi bottom end stays together @ 9000 RPM. Or maybe Steve Barcek and his Nitro motor. If all you can afford is a $400. bandaid, maybe you shouldn't step up yet. JMHO...

[Ron]

I agree with Brian. You tie three potentally movable objects together and they will all three move together. Not good. You should consider anchoring the girdle to the block somewhere else so you eliminate any potential movement.

You might be better off installing four bolt caps than the girdle. At least if one cap moves only one cap will move....not three.

[Brian Baker]

Here's an "out of the box" thought. Tie this device into the outer bolt holes meant for 4-bolt caps and market it as a cheaper alternative to converting to 4-bolt caps from 2-bolt caps. It'll make for a sturdier bottom end over a 2-bolt cap, at less cost than converting to 4-bolt caps.

[77TA]

Seems like this would help to me.. Kinda like a bridge, once the road way is in place the towers are much less vulnerable to wind or earth quake damage. Tieing the three caps togeather should stiffen the caps and increase overall stability IMHO...

[lugnutt]

77TA, What would happen to the same bridge if the center tower was hit by a huge boat, and started to fall? JMO

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by 77TA_2

Seems like this would help to me.. Kinda like a bridge, once the road way is in place the towers are much less vulnerable to wind or earth quake damage. Tieing the three caps togeather should stiffen the caps and increase overall stability IMHO...

The only similarity is the appearance.

In this instance, we have main caps that are moving. We want them to stop moving, or at least limit their movement. What to do? Tie them down to something that is not moving.

[taff2]

This type of girdle(halo) works in the same way as a rocker stud girdle, by tying all the studs together,and they work don't they? It's not the answer to block cracking problems but it's bound to help stop the caps waving fore and aft,which should help with cap fretting problems.
CPL, why didn't you tie all 5 mains together with the girdle?

[GTOGEORGE]

Main Girdle idea is cool (5 years ago) and will probably help, but if your going to make enough power to need a mian girdle you probably shoud just buy one of the After Market blocks (KRE'S MR-1 block.......etc.). In the long run they will save you MONEY!!

[GTO]

I think it'll work up to a point! Here's the deal; There's these three old drunk guys walking down the street. Everything is alright while they're walking slowly (stay with me here, this is LOW RPM). One of them looks at the time and realizes that it's 5 min. to last call! They start to walk faster( that's right, HIGH RPM). Now they start to weave and wander! They grab ahold of each other and stabalize while walking briskly. The guy in the middle trips! He's a goner!!!! But wait his buddies are holding him up, they just saved him! They make it to the bar and can re-fuel for the next run. But add the shooters ( Nitrous) and our three guys will probably run into each other and take themselves out unless they are all tied to a pole with a big rope (panrail)! ... There that should make things easier to understand! ... Eric.

[Tom Vaught]

Quote:

"Here's an "out of the box" thought. Tie this device into the outer bolt holes meant for 4-bolt caps and market it as a cheaper alternative to converting to 4-bolt caps from 2-bolt caps. It'll make for a sturdier bottom end over a 2-bolt cap, at less cost than converting to 4-bolt caps."

A lot of the "old time" girdles did exactly that, Brian.

They tied into the block surface somewhere.

The girdle shown is more of a "knock-off" of the Ford engine "girdle" for the Mustang crowd. BOP was at one time looking into a similar deal.

The good old time girdles used to tie into the pan rail like Steve B's deal does.

A skirt would be the best deal. If you really pay attention to the Hemi 427 Pontiac fuel injection deal that Wallace Racing has articles about you will see it is a main cap/skirt deal and the oil pan bolts to the skirt.

Pontiac would not have done it that way if there was not a reason. JMO

Tom V.