[Half-Inch Stud]

Pontiac462: The upper water hose looks so cool being snaked through tthe dual 6-71s on that blown Hemi.

Gives me an idea what to do with the QTY=2 8V-71s and the cast blower manifold.

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by speedshopmike

hey brian, i remember rick dobb's cars well - have you seen him in the last like 10 years?

Rick has all but disappeared from the Mid-Atlantic scene. After Hot Rod magazine printed a scathing editorial bashing his J-2000, he wrote a reply letter to them basically telling them to F themselves, and then he left the scene. That car was, and still is the pinnacle of the Pro Street movement as far as I'm concerned. It may not have been practical for anything (street driving or racing), but you can't fault the craftmanship and engineering that went into it. There hasn't been anything close that would match it since.

[Steve Barcak]

I did get 1 email from you but, since you posted the same questions here, it would be better to comment in public to share opinions with others.
Does anyone think that set up on the jeep is functional? I see no barrel valves, no port nozzles, no fuel lines at all. I am guessing it has a 4bbl inside the manifold. He probably had no problem with fuel distribution, heat, detonation, etc. anyone see something I do not?
Steve Barcak www.pontiacheaven.org

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by Steve Barcak

I did get 1 email from you but, since you posted the same questions here, it would be better to comment in public to share opinions with others.
Does anyone think that set up on the jeep is functional? I see no barrel valves, no port nozzles, no fuel lines at all. I am guessing it has a 4bbl inside the manifold. He probably had no problem with fuel distribution, heat, detonation, etc. anyone see something I do not?
Steve Barcak www.pontiacheaven.org

I couldn't get past that hideous nose they put on it to even pay attention to the blower setup. It's quite possible the whole thing was a project that someone abandoned and it was never finished/running at the time those pictures were taken.

[speedshopmike]

brian, agreed; that is the most horrid front end i've ever seen.
ever.
cool blower setup though.
for those torturing the double blower guy, cut him slack - if he atns to do it, so waht?
giant shiny stuff is neat even if not terribly functional...think a single AMBR or riddler car EVER sees a mile of street duty?
or any of the other show-only, trailer-queen, owned by weenies, crap i see all the time?
if it makes him happy, let him be happy.
at least it'll get driven.

re; dobbertin: i remember that nasty Hr article...rick's stuff was way over the top, and stupidly impractical as a real car, but sure did garner attention adn interest, and was indeed real well executed.
shame he got out of things; the guy was original and leading edge.
and highly skilled.
whatever happened to teh cars?

[blown 68]

double blowers? go for it. who cares what people think as far as performance, if it's for fun, then do it! blowers are cool no matter how you slice it, hell make it twice as fun, throw two on there(although i strongly agree with the "empty" lower unit). of course it's not as fast. i have tons 'o respect for the racers here who squeeze every possible pony from a poncho, and kick butt doing it, but it's also cool to do a build that has power, and looks to boot, it may not be tuned to the max, but i bet it will run good enough to be a heckovalotta fun! how about this: make the lower blower case a heat exchange,(with pulleys of course), then you've got an 8-71 huffin' on top, cooled by a 6-71 housing, you would have the best of both worlds, stacked blowers, and cooled intake charge! do it...............
davey

[Brian Baker]

SpeedshopMike and Blown-68...two guys that Steve Barcak was referring to with his comments.

I know Bill personally, and I know Bill likes to drive his stuff on the street more than anything else. Running twin blowers arranged like that Australian car is going to create more headaches than its worth for driving on the street just to have someone say "Wow, look at that!". Bill get's those responses NOW with a single blower and carbs that sit nearly as high as the roofline, whether he knows it or not. When he was tooling around the pits at VMP, I was standing with Wayne Garrison, Bill Weyrich, and several other Pontiac racers when he drove by from a distance. I don't know who said it, but someone muttered something to the effect that the car had an out-f@$king-rageous attitude about it.

[mzbk2l]

Anyone see the 8-turbo car in one of the Chevy rags a while ago? The builder said that they also knew they could have made a lot more power with one or two turbos, but they wanted the WOW-factor that they could only get with 8 turbos. The car featured some beautiful craftsmanship, and met the goals of the owner/builder even though it was not the most practical or powerful thing they could have put together. Sounds like the same idea here, and I think it would be neat to see! Good luck with it, Bill!

[Bill Bolin]

Well, I don't have the adapter plate at home, but I mocked it up just to make sure the Chiller was going to clear the firewall and back of the hood before I sent the car to the body shop. It cleared with 1/2" to spare. I took some pics just for grins but it will actually be 1" taller w/ adapter plate. Thanks to those of you that get what I'm trying to do, I appreciate it. Again, I'm not shooting for the 7's but just a fun car that will stick out in a crowd. I will switch back to a single 871 w/ Chiller after I have had my fun.

[Tom Vaught]

You will not be driving the car on two many public streets and most Police Officers will be frowning on the "BLOCKED VISION" deal with the set-up.

It will be cool at the car shows provided that it is trailered. JMO.

Tom V.

[Brian Baker]

I'm with Tom on this one. No way any cop in Maryland is going to let that one drive by them.

[Brian Baker]

So, Bill. You still going to enter that thing in the "race" class at the Burdette show after putting the double blower on it?

[Bill Bolin]

I live by the motto that it's better to ask for forgiveness than permission! LOL I have driven my car for over two years on the roads of Maryland and have never been hassled by the police...........yet! Most of them give me a thumbs up. If you don't act like a fool or give them a reason to pull you over, you USUALLY don't have a problem. The top of the scoop was over the roof before I decided to try the double blower setup, so the obstruction of vision won't change. Here's a pic from last year at Norwalk.

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

You will not be driving the car on two many public streets and most Police Officers will be frowning on the "BLOCKED VISION" deal with the set-up.

It will be cool at the car shows provided that it is trailered. JMO.

Tom V.

[R J Staub]

Bill... I have to agree with most of what everyone is saying about the degree of difficulty and impracticality of this ... BUT I say go for it... if it's what you want you want to do, gives you the emotional high, brings the WOW factor to those who see it, etc, then do it... that is what make the USA the greatest place to be !!! & you can park it next to the OPDS tent at any race, any time !!!!!

[Tom Vaught]

It is your car, do what you want with it.

The empty second case still, in my mind is necessary, for any kind of normal operation. I have played with several staged blower deals over the years and all used an inter-cooler between the two stages.

In your case, having the carbs on top, and feeding through both blowers should have little difference in the overall fuel mixture distribution as it changes constantly vs speed. Even NASCAR engine builders know that deal. 8400 rpm every hole is perfect, 200 rpm higher and the distribution is different.

My other question is the super chiller you have below the blower.
You run that thing with carbs for any period of time?

Tom V.

[Jack Gifford]

Blown68's idea of using the 6-71 case as a mixture cooler seems to have merit. Just need to figure out what type of cooling. How about a throttle-actuated fogging of an inert cold gas (N2O, CO2, etc.) over mixture tubes that run vertically in the 6-71 case (with some escape route)?
[Hey- "blue-sky thinking" is kind of fun, isn't it!]

[Brian Baker]

Or, one could do what Brian Chambers did with his 14-71 street driven Trans-Am. He rigged up an air-conditioning system with the evaporator located in a custom-made carbon-fiber "box" that fit between the blower and the intake manifold. As I recall he mostly used Mopar parts (from the compressor, to the condensor and evaporator). It worked very well. I don't know what was done, or could be done about the condensation that will build up on the outside of the evaporator...prolly' just let the engine absorb it.

[blown 68]

whoa!!! that mocked up is, well, huge! i laughed out loud when i saw how tall that thing is, that will get noticed for sure, no doubt about it. are you running a chiller under the blower now? just wondering what manifold you are running. i am running the old offy conversion, looks like there's a chiller under it, but not. anyway, i think a combination of brians suggestion,(ac unit) and my suggestion,( chiller inside the lower case), just might work, you could stuff the evaporator in the empty case, and lose the chiller, (if you are running one,) wouldn't be quite as tall, but still would get your point across, well, it's fun thinking out loud anyway you slice it, practical or not, have fun!
davey

[Bill Bolin]

I haven't had the Super Chiller on my engine before. It is in the mock up picture but was never on my engine before that pic. I had a 2-1/2" spacer under the blower before so the rear of the blower would clear the distributor cap. What about running the Chiller between the two blowers? Would that be better than under the bottom one? Would the Chiller provide sufficient cooling to prevent detonation, not necessarily a performance enhancement? If this is totally impossible, I'm not trying to change physics. Tom, what would the intake charge temp normally be with a single blower? What about w/ a Chiller? How much do you think the temp will be with a double blower setup? If the car was driven normally ( no boost ) would it be less of a problem? In other words, if I kept my foot out of it, would it be less likely to build up heat?

[firechicken]

I'm more into turbos than roots blowers, but the way I see it, you're going to have some way hot air and an awful lot of pressure coming out that bottom blower. If you've got a pressure ratio of only 1.5 (approx. 8psi) in the first stage and the same in your lower stage, you'l be upwards of 34 psi total to the engine. Without a charge cooler between stages and aftercooling the charge temps will be extreme to say the least at very high boost levels. Trouble to be sure. I'd give some hard thought to the empty lower case if it were me