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Matador-IV · 11-08-2006, 10:27 AM

I prefer the look of a single stage paint job compared to a bc/cc paint job.
I'm a rookie painter and felt bc/cc would be best for my experience level.

I was told, when spraying the clear to add some color to the clear for the first 2 coats. This would give the paint some depth, similar to a single stage.

Any opinions on this?

eric65 · 11-08-2006, 10:48 AM

WOW
never heard dat.... paint depth have you seen a nice BC/CC job?? no compairson

69gtocv · 11-08-2006, 12:39 PM

I have to agree with Matador... I painted my car Starlight Black in single stage. I think Black with clear over it looks "plasticy".

eric65 · 11-08-2006, 01:09 PM

humm so think its too shiny??? is a common with bc/cc for older cars it can come out looking too glossy but that is a technology difference between todays paints and yesterdays..
You could do Enamel it woudl be more durable that todays lacquers..

engineer · 11-08-2006, 01:32 PM

no way

crider · 11-08-2006, 07:39 PM

I know with ppg you can put the base in your clear. Not sure about the other brands. I would only try this if it was a non metalic color though

PetesPonies · 11-08-2006, 08:28 PM

in some cases you can do that..but why? There is absolutely no reason to do such a thing. BC/CC is the best system to use as a rookie. It breaks the things to worry about, into more manable steps. It requires more time and money, but is the best way to paint, epseically if using a metallic and if you are beginning. You can repair the BC/CC much easier than a SS paint job. By adding paint to the clear, you take away that advantage.

Cammer-6 · 11-08-2006, 09:01 PM

I thought thats why they made specific tints for clears.
Not to use base coat for "tinting".
Im not so sure that the base coat is even the same type paint.
I know its not catalyzed.

Matador-IV · 11-08-2006, 09:57 PM

eric65- Yea, it's just too shiney for that original look. I don't like looking into a paint job and having to look through the clear to see the color layer.

Petesponies- I've been looking at alot of bc/cc cars (show cars & drivers) and they all seem to share that common look to them. Perhaps ther putting down too many clear coats causing that 2 layer look, I'm not sure. Some the cars the clear is smooth and shiney like glass, then I look down close into the paint and you can actually see the surface of the color. It's like looking into a cool running river and seeing the rocks laying at the bottom.

Is it painting technique or the system?

The amount of hours/dollars I have into this frame off, and the importance of this car,I want it to look as original as possible. Durability aside, Maybe I need to look at a laquer paint.

Cammer-6, I'll have to look into the tinting thing, thanks.

Oh, The car is a 69 GTO, Matador Red. (no metallic)

bradley fideldy · 11-09-2006, 10:34 AM

Putting some color in the clear coat sounds like a decent idea. Everybody knows how a CANDY paint job is put down right......spray the car silver or gold metallic or whatever the base coat is, and then put on multiple layers of basically what is tinted tranparent clear coat, usually topped off by some just plain clear on top of it. Of course the number of coats, and how much tint you put in each coat gives it the depth of a CANDY paint job. This of course is not exactly the same technology as BC/CC concept......but it will have some of the same effects.

I caution however with todays BC/CC, if you are going to put pigment tint into the clear, make sure you put enough plain clear coat on top of it. The clear is what gives the paint it's UV protection. Course if it nevers leaves the garage probably not a big deal.

Remember the old GM paint job....early 80's when they switched to BC/CC. The clear coat didn't have enough UV resistance, so the sunlight got down to the base coat, and certain colors like blue basecoat, the pigment were a great pathway for the UV rays to get right down to the epoxy e-coat primer. Result, UV rays go through the Clear, down through certain base coat pigments, hits the expoxy primer, turns the top layer of epoxy into chalk, and finally basecoat and clearcoat delaminate and fall off. Thats why all the hoods and roofs on certain colors flaked off to primer. GM didn't advertise it much, but it was a warranty claim even after the cars were many years old.....take it to a dealer and get a new paint job......but, GM only offered that if you took it to a dealer and complained basically.

Cammer-6 · 11-09-2006, 07:39 PM

alot of that was due to experimenting with water based paints vs solvent based

irgoatmike · 11-09-2006, 08:55 PM

Bottom line, follow the directions. I would not put basecoat in clearcoat. If you like the single stage look, go with a high quality acrylic urethane and you'll like the results. I assume you are painting it matador red again, and if so if it were my car I'd look at possibly doing a single stage if it was garaged. If you intend to have the car as a driver, I'd Basecoat/Clearcoat it. irgoatmike

BAD10 · 11-09-2006, 10:34 PM

You could also spray single stage urethane, and then use a 50/50 mix of color and clear on the last 2 coats. However, this is more commonly done with solid colors.............

Matador-IV · 11-11-2006, 12:41 PM

Well, with all the different opinions on this, I think I'll have to do some experimenting when I finish the body work (spring time).

The painters at work who mainly shoot bc/cc showcars, said Laquer....

PetesPonies · 11-12-2006, 01:55 AM

before you spray lacquer, investigate what it takes to do a good lacquer job. I have done a couple Vettes lately that the owner insisted on lacquer. It is time intensive to do it right. Easy to spray, but hours and hours of work plus a couple weeks painting a drying time to do it right.

Norwood · 11-12-2006, 11:10 AM

Don't be afraid of a little work. The results will be worth it.

Matador-IV · 11-12-2006, 02:58 PM

PetesPonies, Were you happy with the results of your Laquer paint jobs?

It appears you paint professionally.....so I'm sure man hours,budgets,project scheduling and many other things come into play when you choose how to approach a resto. If you did NOT have to consider any of these would you still suggest bc/cc for a super paint job?

My questions are not intended to sound 'combative'.

Matador-IV · 11-12-2006, 03:10 PM

Norwood,
What paint is on your car?

Don't be afraid of a little work. The results will be worth it.

That's exactly how I want to approach this paint job!! I don't want to use; cost of materials,ease of spraying,or time involved to determine the kind of paint I use.

I would like to benefit from new paint technologies,in terms of durability and UV protection. But.....If laquer is the only way to achieve that original look, I will sacrifice technology.

Norwood · 11-12-2006, 05:09 PM

The paint that is currently on my car is Lacquer that was sprayed in about 1980. It still looks good, Of course it has always been garaged and taken care of. Today's paints are much more durable, but I to want the original look that only Lacquer can provide. I am currently in the process of redoing the car and I will be painting it with lacquer.

PetesPonies · 11-16-2006, 07:52 PM

sure I like the BC/CC. It is a better material than lacquer, plain and simple. If you like lacquer that is fine. If the car is proetced it will hold up fine, but with acid rain and bird doo-doo..the urethane products are hard to beat. And time wise, it does take less time with BC/CC even counting the color sanding and buffing afterwards. Now a lacquer job can be done in a weekend, but I'm talking doing it right, which means a couple weeks to paint it.

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