[Hazieview]

Ok from people that actually know Pontiacs I need a little help. I have a 1971 Pontiac LeMans Sport Convertible. When I show people pictures of the car they say "Oh what is that? A GTO?" I say "No, it's a '71 LeMans." Then they say "Well I want a GTO. If I could choose one classic car it would be a GTO." I mean come on! The LeMans is basically the same thing right? Except for the hood and fender. Plus I dont think they made GTO convertibles in '71 did they? I dont get it! Wouldn't it be better to have an original '71 LeMans Convertible then a '71 LeMans GTO clone? I see my car as a "sports" car. I see the GTO as a beast. You couldn't really put them in the same catagory could you? It's really just about what you want right? Or does my car suck compared to a GTO. I mean honestly what do you all think.



(p.s. I dont mean to be a forum hog by posting all these messages about my car. I just have a lot of questions and I am new to the board. Thanks & Sorry!)

[PB]

First of all, welcome to the boards! No need to apologize, no such thing as a stupid question...just stupid people... :O) JUST KIDDING ON THAT ONE! GTO will always hold more value and recognition than any Lemans. They did make 71 GTO convertibles..the last year for a GTO vert. Car values anymore are greater if everything is original... GTO or Lemans, especially low mileage cars. Clones are gaining in value, but it depends on the "accuracy" of the clone..ie drive train and what you are "clone-ing". The 71 and 72 Lemans are every bit GTO's are, as you could have the same options and drive train as a GTO in a Lemans. Only years that was done. And you are right, it's about what you like and want. Your car doesn't suck compared to a GTO, it just doesn't have those 3 little letters everyone recognizes. Welcome!
Pat

[70ra455]

HAZEL - your car is a beauty (the brown one right?) Whoever puts it down says more about themselves then they do about you or your car.

[The Boss]

I don't think there is a guy here who wouldn't want your car - enjoy it and welcome.

[gtoformula]

I am in complete agreement with PB. Your 1971 Sport Lemans is a very cool car. Your are correct that appearance wise the front clip (hood w/scoops, fenders, endura bumper) are the major differences. Mechanically a GTO would have a larger, higher HP engine, dual exhaust and larger sway bars, but they are very much the same other than that.
The mystique of those three letters is what makes the big difference to those who know the name GTO. Due to music, advertising and word of mouth on the street the name GTO has become immortal in automotive circles. Personally, I'd love to have a 1971 Sport Lemans ... if I was in the market the entry price would be much lower than a comparable GTO convertible and the general driving experince with the top down would be excellent.
Enjoy your classic Pontiac. The folks that down play your car probably don't know any better ... the people that do know better will probably admire your car for what it is ... a very stylish, rare, convertible classic Pontiac.

[Hazieview]

I'm not knocking anybody's car, but I kind of like the '71 LeMans better, without the gills, than the '71 GTO because to me it is a lot smoother. However that radical front end is what makes GTO stand out (looks wise) compared to say a Chevelle, a Charger, or even my LeMans. I see that it is all about what you like and what you want. I also see what yall are saying about about be happy to own my car no matter what it is because I'd rather have a classic convertible that not have anything at all. The next time someone trys to knock my car I'll just say, "Hey what do you got?" Very seldom will they be able to bust out a badass GTO or any classic at all for that matter. Thanks for the input and advice guys! I really appreciate it.

[lethal-428-lemans]

The way I see it there are a hell of a lot more restored GTO's arond than LeMans. For now a GTO is worth more, I think in a few years we will start to see the LeMans & Tempest be the car worth more because that will be more rare.

If I'm right you could order the Lemans with any thing you got on a GTO. So I'll bet there are some bad ass Lemans out on the road.


Love you Lemans, the car hobby is all about what YOU like or want.

[north]

I tend to agree that a 71-72 lemans is a cleaner looking car than the same years GTO that IMO had too much front overhang. And unlike the GTO's from that era, lemans' by not being thought of as performance cars in the first place, do not suffer from the stigma of being seen as smogger LoPos compared to there sixties counterparts.
Thats not to say that those GTO's are not nice cars (or that 455ho's were not good engines), it's just that when a car that was marketed to be all about horsepower finds itself (in 71) with 50 less hp and even it's top performance engine has 15 hp less than the base engine of previous year it's hard not to take a hit to the reputation and gotta have it departments (not to mention the then new and even lower sounding net numbers). the sales, or lack of, in that era clearly reflected this problem.

[TJH]

I like them all, but to say that a base Tempest will someday be worth more than a GTO due to "rarity" is ludicrous. The Tempest's and LeMans's will continue to appreciate in value, to be sure, but the original high-dollar and high-horsepower cars are what will always draw the big money. Otherwise, 6-cylinder Barracuda's would soon be going for more than the Hemi Cuda's- and we all know that is never gonna happen.

[GRX]

Actually, a '71 LeMans Sport was my very first car. Never let anyone say they are not as cool as a GTO.

[tp's lemans sport]

My LeMans gets lots of attention at car shows. 15 GTO's including clones, One or two LeMans. People like them, V8 same interior as a GTO. I would say my LeMans Sport is valued above a bench seat column shift GTO. The Tempest line is non existent, because they have been used for parts cars.

[b777d]

Back in the 60s and 70s my father was a car dealer and he ordered a 71 GT-37 with all the goodies so I asked him why he didnt get a GTO answer was he didnt like the front end and I thought he was the only one.

I now have the car restored and no matter where I go it turns heads.

I am all for changing the engine drive train suspension etc to make it quicker and handel better but to put GTO emblems on a Lemans no thanks.

Just my opinion.

But its what ever floats your boat.

[tp's lemans sport]

I agree 777 the car needs to remain what it started out as. Do whatever mods you want but dont rebadge it to make something it never was. Everytime a LeMans is cloned it devalues the garden variety GTO.

[Hazieview]

Well I am glad that yall some of you feel the same way as me. I just like the front clip better as well as the engine. To me a 455 is too much. A 400 though.... Just right. My first car was a 1966 Chevrolet C-10 Pickup. It had a small block 400 in it was backed by a 350turbo transmission with a .373 rearend. I had TOO MUCH fun in that truck so I hope the LeMans satisy my urges as well. The main thing I love about my LeMans is the reactions I got when I drove it to twon. I was in the parking lot with my top down and people would literally stop me and ask me questions about it . Haha! one couple stopped and asked about it and said, "That is a beautiful car. It is nice to see a young man keep the classics alive." Another older man stopped to tell me that he use to paint those cars when they were bran new. It's a good feeling ya know. The fact that you appreciate it but others do to.

[71lemanssprt]

My thought is that true the lemanssports will never completely catch up to gto in price but if you want some thing to drive and not sit in the garage then I think the lemans is the better choice. Also isn't the lemanssport/gto like the firebird/trans am of recent years nobody knocks the firebird owner for not being a trans am. I own two pontiacs at this time both being a 67 lemans 326/4 speed / and a 71 lemans sports 455/auto both of these cas once done will be street driven so gto thing is out of the question . as i pointed out in other bloggs theives wont check to see if your gto is really a gto before stealing it and insurance companies will still want gto premiums if it looks like a gto and is a lemans sport( so why spend the money to increase the risk and cost of owning and driving a muscle car) i am sure many a gto owner got imbarassed by the little old lemans and sports in their day. keep the as pontiac made them . I vote no on the cloning issue

[LuxLeMans]

Well, I have a front grille completely different from the LeMans AND GTO!!!
And my car came with fender skirts for cryin' out loud!

But I'll cut to the point. I cannot go ANYWHERE without being accosted with questions, admiration at gas stations, thumbs up all over town. We get to see the thumbs up because we DRIVE it. Every day. Because we like to, and we can afford to. If this were a GTO, I would be freaked out to drive daily, and take out a mortgage to keep the tank filled. And John Q Public thinks its a GTO anyway.

So we get the super-low insurance and tax rates, decent mileage, and miles of style. All for the same curb-appeal/ level of appreciation of a GTO from all but the snobbiest of GTO-fanatics.

I'm not knockin GTO's at all, I would love to have one some day. Even though my Luxury LeMans is rare, it will never reach the value of genuine GTOs. But I cant measure the bang for the buck value I get out of my LLM!!

[Judge273]

I love them both too. But, when it comes to 71 A-body verts the GTO is a better looking car! I love that front end... are you guys kidding? The mesh grill, the functional air intake hood scoops, and endura bumper set it apart from the LeMans. A lot LeMans owners opted for that front end, and even more in 72 without the GTO too.

But, if you read all the GTO books it got some bad press, and it was poorly marketed by Pontiac.

The standard 400 engine was still a strong engine, and the 71 455 HO is considered one of Pontiacs best engine. Who cares what they posted as the HP they were wrong by about 50 horses. TQ was up and made the difference anyways, and runs on pump gas!

But, the 71 GTO is set apart by being the last year of the convertible with the 24267 designation, and only 661 made it rare.

I own and drive a 71 GTO vert. Granted not everyday, but it has accumlated a lot of good miles since I bought it in 1988 as the second owner. I will tell you that it is a fast, and very comfortable riding car.

[tp's lemans sport]

I think the 71 is the best looking GTO next to next to a 65. What I believe we are saying is that as LeMans owners we would rather have our cars badged correctly rather then make it something it was never meant to be. In addition to it being badged correctly eventually the rarity will drive the value higher while on the other hand the cloning of GTO lessen the value in all but the high end Judges, and ram air III & IV's.

So I guess if your going to spend the extra money to clone, clone a ram air judge.

[LuxLeMans]

Judge 273, that is sweet. Is that autumn bronze or castillian bronze? How 'bout that interior color?

My other classic is burnt metallic orange. I'm a 'sucker for cinammon' I guess you could say!

[pontiacpetey]

I love the regular lemans front end as well, don't let anyone tell you different.
The enduro front end is (I think) significantly heavier too. I vote you keep it as a Lemans besides when you enter a car show there are never any Lemans there they have all been made into GTO clones LOL ---Easy trophy.
I think most people agree it is the quality of the fit and finish over the type of car. Build it like you want put a fire breathing 400 in it and enjoy it, after all it is your car enjoy the compliments and enjoy the ride.
If I had a nickle for every time I heard "its too bad its not a GTO" I could afford a GTO, but then again I get great satisfaction in telling people my 72Lemans is way more rare than any 72 GTO. (Less than 120 GT sport ragtops built in total) Peace.