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Hutchinaugusta · 01-06-2007, 08:58 PM

I just picked up an ORIGINAL set of H-O Racing tri y headers today!!!!

Check em out http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2216...34160182YCPxSY

or here http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2942...34160182TtepGb

These are d port headers, but since the tubes have to be heated and formed to the "d" port I would imagine they could be heated and re-shaped so a round port flange could be installed on them, get them coated and away we go. If adapting a round flange is not feesible then here is a pattern to build another set.

Actually with all the troubles here I was thinking about producing specialty headers and tri y's myself but time and space are an issue, that is UNELESS I can rent that new office that has the shop out back, THEN I could..............

wait a minute, there I go day dreaming agian.

I am SO glad to have happened across these headers today, I had a set back in 87 or 88 and really loved them, along with all the other H-O racing stuff I had, I used the dist. and carb accuracy kits, HC-02 & Rhoads lifters, ported the heads by their book and spec'ed out the entire car per their recommendations, ALL good stuff and that car would RUN.

Ken, I spoke to you a few months back about this project, I still have your number, you'll be getting a call before too long, thanks for the advice.

Pitch 400 · 01-06-2007, 09:33 PM

I think there would be a good market for Ken building more Try-Y's. I'll bet a lot of people would be ordering if they were available.

b-man · 01-06-2007, 10:19 PM

Here's a few shots of some of Ken's original round-port HO Racing Tri-Ys. Would be great to see them made again.

I have 2 sets of these headers, one set I bought new about 15 years ago.

I wouldn't mind owning a 3rd set.

Larry Navarro · 11:03 PM

My set of H-O Y's are still in Rons possesion. I bought mine from Ken back in '95. The fit wasn't optimal as I had to clearance a tube or two around the lower control arm brackets on the '73 SD clone I had built.
Ron's headers were clearly an improvement over the H-O units, as he made sure there were NO problems with ANY interference. His desire to produce a perfect fitting header was the whole reason he took on the header project. He was one of us who was tired of the sub-par quality from the aftermarket.
He did succeed to a certain degree(ask the customers who have a set) but problems arose.
Even though Ron has pissed alot of people off, his intentions were to bring forth a product that had the quality and fit that was FAR better than any commercially available header on the market. The only reason I bring up these points is that if ANYONE is willing to take on the task of producing a Tri-Y header, they ought to keep in mind the quality and fit first,....profits, second.
Hey Ken, maybe a drive up to Napa might help get the ball rolling. Maybe Ron would be receptive to a "buy out" and you could aquire all the machinery and jigs.
Hell, all the "engineering" has already been done so the issue of quality and fit wouldn't be questioned.
Dang....maybe I ought to do this.

gearbanger · 01-06-2007, 11:25 PM

That is a good point about the quality of the aftermarket parts. Now Ron knows first hand just how hard it is to try and do something "perfect". Perhaps the persistence to do it exactly right drove his business right in the ground. That would be nice to have his product brought to market, just not sure it is possible to have a "perfect" fitting header. I mean think about it, take Doug's for example. Some people say they fit unbelievable, some people say they had clearance issues. Same kind of car and everything. Either there are subtle differences in frames or optional equipment or people just have different opinions on what a "good fit" is. Whichever it is, I'm guessing people are always going to b!tch about the quality of aftermarket parts. Fact is, nothing is perfect. You have to fine tune it yourself. That's just part of the hobby of hot rodding cars.

Hutchinaugusta · 01-06-2007, 11:29 PM

Did Tribal Tubes (Ron) bother or try to "buy" the prior engineering Ken and others had put into the "tri-y's" headers BEFORE Tribal Tubes copied them?? Just curious as it would be an obvious show of "good faith" for Ron to surrender his new found knowledge about fitment and other issues to someone who could actually do something positive with the knowledge. Someone who may actually be able to produce a reliable product in a TIMELY fashion for the entire "Pontiac community", this is just an outsiders view by the way. An outsider who owns his own business and deals with the public on a daily basis, you live or die by the promises you make, it seems obvious to me Tribal Tubes has died by the promises it made and did not keep.

BTW, an observation after 15 years in business for myself, if you enter into ANY venture thinking the "love" of something is going to pay the bills or make the Mrs. Happy you're you're dead WRONG, out of business and bankrupt before you even start!!!! "Money talks and BS walks" is really the way of the world folks!!

gearbanger · 01-06-2007, 11:41 PM

I personally hate to see Ron surrender anything before he either pays me back my $700 or sends me a cherry set of coated D-port headers for my GTO. H-O racing doesn't owe me anything so how is that going to help?

Hutchinaugusta · 01-07-2007, 12:08 AM

Re-read the post, I never said H-O racing owes anyone anything, I meant to inferr that Ron may actually owe H-O racing royalties for prior engineering he copied, if in fact if he made changes to the original design his debt could be considered "paid" IF he would surrender said improvements to the corporation who last held the rights to "H-O racing", who owns the design and marketing rights to products it desigend, engineered and manufactered for sale to the public.

Larry Navarro · 12:26 AM

Maybe I should have described the fitment of Ron's header as a "optimal fit", since nothing can be a "perfect fit"..........and that the headers have been "re-engineered" for optimal fit.
.................................................. ..................................................

It's been along time but if I recall, Ron talked to Ken about his plans to make the headers and he had no problems with it.
There's plenty of companies that make four-tube and tri-y headers. If you can bend pipe, weld and sell them, then you're doing nothing different than anyone else.

Hutchinaugusta · 01-07-2007, 12:52 AM

I really like your air cleaner assembly for the Edelbrock RPM intake allowing the shaker to be retaiend, it is much much cleaner than the "other" kit on the market from Arkansas, as a matter of fact I am going to order one of yours next week, but how would you feel if I were to buy one of your kits and have the punch press dies made to copy it ? Would you feel this "reverse engineering" were wrong?? That is the point I was trying to make. It would really suck if all the hard work, time and effort you put into something left a bad taste in someone's mouth over issues YOU had nothing to do with??? Being a 25 year Pontiac nut "Tri-Y Pontiac" headers are from H-O racing ONLY, all this talk about Ron @ Tribal Tubes not delivering "tri-y" headers makes me think H-O racing is not staying on top of it's franchisees, if I owned the rights to "H-O Racing specialties" I would not be very happy right now.

vtxman · 01-07-2007, 01:01 AM

I also own a set of the HO Tri Y's that I purchased back in the 80's. I would do almost anything to have a new set of these or even better to have a set of the tribal Tri Y's.

Does anyone know who manufactured the HO Tri y's? Did Ken Crocie Manufacture them himself? It seems to me that he must have had a header company do the manufacturing for him. If this is the case, can't someone have this company make them again?

I have recently purchased a set of Flowtech and a set of Hedman 28150's. I have also looked at quite a few pictures of the Doug D-port headers. I am very disappointed with the quality and fit of all of these. I have decided to resurrect the old rusty HO Tri y's instead. They are a higher quality product and much better fit.

Are there not any other choices? These old Tri Y's won't last forever.

Larry Navarro · 01:26 AM

Hutch........it seems that you prefer MY product over the "other" kit. Why is that so?
Maybe because I developed an IMPROVED ALTERNATIVE to the "other" kit, right?....maybe its the high quality aluminum construction?....maybe it's over a $100 LESS than the "other" kit and doesn't require extra-cost modifications to work with a Holley carburetor.
Does that sound like "reverse engineering" to you?
I didn't simply "punch out" copies out of a fiberglass piece now did I?

Look at the aftermarket when it comes to cold air induction kits. There are more companies that produce these things than you can count on your hands. Are they all EXACT copies of each other?.......no they're not. They all have designs that set them apart from each other. None of them are infringing on each others product.

That's MY point in comparing Rons header to any other.

Larry Navarro · 01-07-2007, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtxman

Does anyone know who manufactured the HO Tri y's? Did Ken Crocie Manufacture them himself? It seems to me that he must have had a header company do the manufacturing for him. If this is the case, can't someone have this company make them again?

Ironically, the company that Ron contracted to make his first run of headers was the same one who gave him the most trouble and that was DOUGS. When Ron first approached DOUGS to undertake the fabrication of his headers, they told him if it were a CHEVY, it wouldn't be a problem because they could crank out hundreds of them. Since it was for a Pontiac, they weren't interested evven though they already had 4-tube headers for them.
It's a long story that can be found elsewhere in the forum.
So if Ken had DOUGS manufacturing them back then, then I would be willing to bet that they have the same jigs and tooling as Ron used.

Hutchinaugusta · 01-07-2007, 01:35 AM

This is interesting, I do not understand your confritational reply. I compliment the design and obvious thought of your product and you try to slam me??? The FACT is I like your design because the air cleaner base IS the adapter, not simply a off the shelf "drop" air cleaner base with a trim piece with an altered height to shaker mount, I have done my due dillengence and thought YOUR product was cleaner, better thought out and with the larger element was more performance oriented than your competetior and what I thought I wanted to use on my car. You appeared to have entirely missed the point of my post and your curse reply only confirms the fact you would be upset if someone were to copy your design which WAS the point of my previous posts. If you do not know how to take a compliment regarding your products and it's originality it is best just NOT to reply.

Larry Navarro · 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hutchinaugusta

I really like your air cleaner assembly for the Edelbrock RPM intake allowing the shaker to be retaiend, it is much much cleaner than the "other" kit on the market from Arkansas, as a matter of fact I am going to order one of yours next week, but how would you feel if I were to buy one of your kits and have the punch press dies made to copy it ? Would you feel this "reverse engineering" were wrong?? That is the point I was trying to make. It would really suck if all the hard work, time and effort you put into something left a bad taste in someone's mouth over issues YOU had nothing to do with???

Hutch......I didn't oversee the compliments and such, a regarded thank you....BUT....what I note here is YOUR opinion of the post I made of Ron and his "copy" of H-O racings headers. It sounds like you don't agree with me and my "copying" a design of another product.
You mention my "curse reply"?.......on the contrary, Why would I feel upset. There are others who market shaker adaptor assemblies. If I was pissed, I would be "cursing" them. My product speaks for itself.
The internet sure makes it difficult to express vocal tone.
Truce?

vtxman · 01-07-2007, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Navarro

So if Ken had DOUGS manufacturing them back then, then I would be willing to bet that they have the same jigs and tooling as Ron used.

So was it Dougs that manufactured the original HO Tri Y's?

Hutchinaugusta · 01-07-2007, 01:53 AM

"That's the problem with the internet."

SUCKS don't it? 90% of our interpetation of response is base on "tone" of reply, I am awful at conveying my emotion through a keyboard as most everyone else is. I am sorry if we were not on the same page, I will contact you regarding a "kit" next week. You mentioned Holley sepcifically, that is new to me, A 850 Edelbrock Q-Jet and Performer RPM is the correct height for your assembly, is that correct???