[70ra455]

Say what you want Baron but we've got 100's of posts (no exageration) on this board that claimed BJ was raising prices and no one should sell on ebay (because the prices were recently LOW LOW LOW) until after BJ and then the prices would be higher. Then it was the wrong time and the wrong night for the sales on Thursday and Friday. NOW we've got a MINT 4spd RA4 Judge that you guys only two weeks ago were hawking as the new Hemi's.

Now the price comes in at a RIDICULOUSLY LOW $117,000 for a # matching MINT CONDITION FRAME OFF RESTORED RA4 Judge.

NOW we're saying that BJ doesn't set the pace for Pontiacs? Ugh ... you're just fooling yourself.

Wanna bet that the next Russo Steele isn't much better if better at all?

[70ra455]

Weren't we just saying that it was reasonable two weeks ago for that phony auction for the $450,000 black judge???

[ramair2]

BVZ

BJ sux for selling pontiacs no question. always has and always will so long as they only 'offer' no reserve slots.

what this thread was hitting on was that cars that normally DO SELL and sell for BIG bucks at BJ (hemi ebodies and ls6 chevelles, copo camaros) DIDNT today...

they were down and down by a LOT relative to last year...

so what do we have here?

a canary in the muscle collector coal mine or people sick/getting satiated of hemi cudas and copo/yenko camaros?

to me its an interesting question but one I need more data on/more auction results from (esp russo and steel)! :-)

[SuperStockAMX]

As I posted elsewhere, 1969 GTO Convertible @ Russo & Steele. RAIV. 4-speed. 3.90's. PHS docs. Supposedly #'s matching. NICE CAR - $85K SOLD!
I was there, owner dropped the reserve at either $75K or $80K.

I also watched the owner of a '69 1/2 Super Bee 6-pack about puke when he dropped his reserve and got $66K.

I saw other GTO's, The Judge's & two '69 T/A's @ Russo & Steel w/ most not meeting reserve.

My buddy dropped the reserve on his '67 Comet 202 427 R code 4-speed and received $108K (the commission dropped to 5% as well; something you should be aware happens all the time at a reserve auction). This Comet is the very best restoration possible and is Raven Black w/ red interior & 4-speed. Only 22 Comets w/ R code 427 built and only 2 with this color combination. He bought it @ Mecum Ill in '06 for $95K.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Looks like the same type crowd doing business at Russo. Jegs IV and the White 36k mile/1 owner IV Judge both would have done much better on eBay. Speculators always predict higher returns from AZ auctions, sometimes it's true - this time NOT.

It's been a big picture in Arizona for a long time and it's getting old. I think it's wearing itself thinner. Prices somehow went through the roof last year - deep pockets stay home this year and relax. In return prices fall off this year. Probably next year won't be as many top level Cars (scared sellers) but tons of buyers hoping to scarf a dreamy deal, like in Jan.07.

All that Arizona stuff is just becoming a charade/circus. Last year it was a sellers market, this year a buyers market - and by a WIDE margin. It's never switched so much in just a years time. The economy hasn't drowned by that margin in past year. I say majority are just fed up/burned out on all the AZ hype and turmoil. More of the real players are just staying away from AZ. Folks who can afford to buy AND keep these Cars don't dump them like that in just a years time at a loss. Too many rookie/quick turn investors flooding the market will have that effect and maybe it's for the best in general. But it's going to hurt most everyone involved whether veteran or beginner.

Now this is just my view/opinion and also the way I feel about going to Arizona to buy or sale a Car.

Not sure anyone called the 450k Blk/Blk 70 IV auction reasonable. I was highest predicter at around 200k. It may have been real - but probably not. It was very peculiar to say just the least. Sources say it was - and some sources say not. Both sides say they have it on good authority. I'd call it bogus until absolutely proven otherwise.

An IV will never be of Hemi/LS6/CJet status to ALL the masses. But with guys like Bruno kicking their a$$es, they will continue to demand and acquire more and more respect.

[Judge273]

Most of these cars just go from one auction to the next auctions it seems. The triple green 69 Judge vert didn't break 100K in 05 at Mecum, and sold for 200K this year. Will probably show up again soon.

Also, the 66 Coronet 4 door hemi sold for 600K in 05 at Mecum, and sold again at BJ for 600K and is the same car. This car only made money for BJ. Go figure?

[1969 Ram Air]

Prices seem to be down for all muscle cars. It makes sense with real estate taking a dump too. It's all cyclical and prices should bounce back. Maybe not to the prices we have seen or maybe stronger than ever. Who knows?

[PonchoV8]

I'll agree with the housing market causing ripples in the collector car market. Look at CA/AZ/NV real estate for instance. A house bought 5 yrs ago and sold the last couple of yrs, could easily gain by a couple hundred thou.

My aunt works in investment real estate here. Every month for the past year, there are groups contacting them from those states looking for duplexes, 4-plexes. They've cashed out of CA markets and are moving to areas that lag for hopefully another large gain. They buy toys with some of that extra cash.
A quadplex here sells for only 150-300. They've even conducted seminars for groups on 'how to buy investment prop when you're an out of state investor'. These people were walking around with cash in their hands looking for a place to spend it--mostly to avoid gains taxes.

[allmycarsrjunk]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Looks like the same type crowd doing business at Russo. Jegs IV and the White 36k mile/1 owner IV Judge both would have done much better on eBay. Speculators always predict higher returns from AZ auctions, sometimes it's true - this time NOT.

It's been a big picture in Arizona for a long time and it's getting old. I think it's wearing itself thinner. Prices somehow went through the roof last year - deep pockets stay home this year and relax. In return prices fall off this year. Probably next year won't be as many top level Cars (scared sellers) but tons of buyers hoping to scarf a dreamy deal, like in Jan.07.

All that Arizona stuff is just becoming a charade/circus. Last year it was a sellers market, this year a buyers market - and by a WIDE margin. It's never switched so much in just a years time. The economy hasn't drowned by that margin in past year. I say majority are just fed up/burned out on all the AZ hype and turmoil. More of the real players are just staying away from AZ. Folks who can afford to buy AND keep these Cars don't dump them like that in just a years time at a loss. Too many rookie/quick turn investors flooding the market will have that effect and maybe it's for the best in general. But it's going to hurt most everyone involved whether veteran or beginner.

Now this is just my view/opinion and also the way I feel about going to Arizona to buy or sale a Car.

Not sure anyone called the 450k Blk/Blk 70 IV auction reasonable. I was highest predicter at around 200k. It may have been real - but probably not. It was very peculiar to say just the least. Sources say it was - and some sources say not. Both sides say they have it on good authority. I'd call it bogus until absolutely proven otherwise.

An IV will never be of Hemi/LS6/CJet status to ALL the masses. But with guys like Bruno kicking their a$$es, they will continue to demand and acquire more and more respect.

BVZ, all excellent opinions, your points made here are exactly what I've experienced buying and selling some rare poncho's in the past 6 weeks. Friends of mine that have done some car trading/buying recently have had similar transactions to mine. I will also say that I would be extremely happy to have that White Ram IV Judge in my garage for 117,000, unless there was some major issue with it (don't care about sr block). And at the risk of being redundant, you (BVZ) are right on as usual.

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by allmycarsrjunk

BVZ, all excellent opinions, your points made hear are exactly what I've experienced buying and selling some rare poncho's in the past 6 weeks. Friends of mine that have done some car trading/buying recently have had similar transactions to mine. I will also say that I would be extremely happy to have that White Ram IV Judge in my garage for 117,000, unless there was some major issue with it (don't care about sr block). And at the risk of being redundant, you (BVZ) are right on as usual.

That buyer's face had HOLY **** written all over it.