[Region Warrior]

I can see this thread getting interesting

The chicken, or the egg?

What wears 1st?
The pilot bearing/bushing? Or the main brg/rllrs in the trans?



My BBC buddy has built over 400 m/t's on the side last 20yrs.
A machinest by trade, we have beat this subject to death.
Every time i chose one side, he takes the other.
He can prove it either way, but claims bearing's have less wear when set up properly...

[fiedlerh]

Back to the original question. The 7109 bearing is correct for Pontiac. The 7109 is not used much any more in the industrial world, and is getting more expensive and a bit harder to find than something common like a 6202.

You could probably use other bearings if machine work is done to make it fit. A 6202 would be easy to adapt and you can get it double shielded. Maybe a needle bearing can be adapted if you can get one with a 15mm ID, but it won't keep dirt out. Look up bearing and bushing engineering data and use what suits the application. I think I've seen as many worn out bushings as I've seen rough ball bearings. As Tom noted, bell housing alignment is important.

[baron_]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

That is what a drill bit and lathe is for. LOL! I have made my own from bronze stock.

Tom V.

exactly what i did about 6 months ago

although i was using a screwdriver and grinder
(stick the screwdriver through the hole and grind it evenly as it rotates until it fits)

[Pontirag]

bearings when they fail are usually traumatic to other components as well. needle bearings can get embedded in the face of the clutch disc and usually the lubricating grease gets slung all around the face of the clutch as well. then the unsupported imput shaft tears out everything in the front half of the tranny.EVERY THING!

[KEN CROCIE]

You do know the roller bearing gets staked in place
after installation(per the service manual) to prevent it from comming out of the crank, right?

[GTO Dan]

"You do know the roller bearing gets staked in place
after installation(per the service manual) to prevent it from comming out of the crank, right?"

Uhhh...errrr...no. Now you hit a never Ken...I did not realize it needed to get stacked in place. As embarrassing (notice the word a@@ in there) as this sounds...and not having a factory manual handy...how would I go about properly stacking it?

By the way, I have properly aligned the Lakewood shield.

Thanks,

Dan

[Old Man Taylor]

I guess there shouldn't be two threads as I mentioned that in the other thread. I take a small chisel and hit the edge of the crank, overlapping the edge of the bearing. I don't hit the bearing, I just make sure some crank material deforms into the edge of the bearing. I do this in 3 places. I have never had a bearing move or come out. As a matter of fact I never had one fail for any reason. However, I always changed the bearing whenever I replaced the clutch.

[Junkyard Dog]

I didn't know it should be staked in place.

[Tom Vaught]

Quote:

"However, I always changed the bearing whenever I replaced the clutch."

Maybe that is the reason, Jim, you never had any issues.

Speaking of clutches:

Anyone ever "prepare a clutch disc" and the pressure plate after running the clutch for a while?

At one time I was having some transmission issues, (they were destroying themselves on third gear shifts due to the span in the transmission being the widest when shifting into third.) Trans shaft deflects, gear mesh is reduced and the teeth shell off the gear. Time to change the guts or buy another one from the junk yard.

Everytime I would pull the trans I would put a new clutch and pressure plate back in. An oldtimer at the parts shop asked me why I was having so much trouble. I told him about the trans and how the clutch stuff was expensive to replace at the same time. He said "Why in the he** are you doing that to perfectly good parts".

He said: "Take the clutch disc that has been "cured" by the heat from clutch use and glass bead off the resin that rose to the surface. The clutch will be like brand new and will last ten times longer vs a new clutch that just boils off resin like the last one did. I did that and have not replaced a clutch disc in 20 years as I had three other discs that I had previously purchased. 5 years out of a clutch disc beating the snot out of it on shifts is great durability in my mind.

Think about it.

Tom V.

[F/S GTO]

Sintered iron clutches and Jerico`s have solved all those problems. 6 years on the clutch and haven`t touched it except to adjust base pressure and counter weight. 400 runs on the trans with out a problem until the pilot bearing seized and tore the snout off the unput shaft.

Take a look...http://www.advancedclutches.com/

[GTO Dan]

Thanks for the tips guys.

[Tom Vaught]

Quote:

"until the pilot bearing seized and tore the snout off the unput shaft."

Notice how the man said PILOT BEARING.

Tom V.

The clutch disc tip was for street and strip racers mostly.

[Old Man Taylor]

I did not change my clutch very often at all. Each set up ran for years.

[Tom Vaught]

You ever do the glass bead deal Jim?

Tom V.

[gearbanger]

I went from a 400 with a pilot bushing to a 461 with a pilot bearing and picked up around 150 Horsepower! Don't tell anybody though, it's my secret weapon.

[fiedlerh]

I posted some pilot bearing info a while back on my crank page.
http://fiedlerh.home.att.net/PontiacCranks.htm

The shop manual says to stake in 2 places, but 3 is good too. Kent Moore used to make a pilot bearing puller, a mini slide hammer deal, but you can get a screw type pilot bearing puller from Harbor Fright.

I used to run a brass clutch on the street without problems. Just another low maintenance alternative.

[Old Man Taylor]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

You ever do the glass bead deal Jim?

Tom V.

I must not have because I don't know what you are talking about.

[speedshopmike]

you only got 150 hp from your bearing?
it musta been seized or something!
i use the lubeless bearing made of synthetic unobtanium; it frees up 328 horsepower in reduced gravitational pull against the back of the car, and is self-staking! (and self-ejecting by remote control via the internet)

[F/S GTO]

Quote: " Notice how the man said PILOT BEARING."

Notice how I said in my previous post I switched to a PILOT BUSHING...no more problems.

[Tom Vaught]

Post 29 of this topic Jim,

Quote:

"He said: "Take the clutch disc that has been "cured" by the heat from clutch use and glass bead off the resin that rose to the surface. The clutch will be like brand new and will last ten times longer vs a new clutch that just boils off resin like the last one did. I did that and have not replaced a clutch disc in 20 years as I had three other discs that I had previously purchased. 5 years out of a clutch disc beating the snot out of it on shifts is great durability in my mind."

In basic terms:

The clutch is new. The clutch has resins used in the clutch manufacture that have not seen heat. The clutch needs to be thermal cycled. The clutch unfortunately "bleeds out" some of the resin on the face of the clutch and flywheel. The clutch not had less surface area to hold the forces. By taking a good but slightly used clutch disc and glassbeading off the surface resin you are not back to the friction material, the resin will not bleed out to any great degree beyound this point, and you will have a lot happy life when using the clutch in a car.

Hope that helps Jim.

Tom V.