[Sharkbait40]

Below is my complete conversation with a Pypes Customer Service Rep. Basically I recieved a exhaust system from my wife for Xmas, the only thing it was missing was the down pipes. I ordered them from the company and had an exhaust leak on the passenger side since day one. I called them and they said some had a problems with them but- just grind it down and you should'nt have a problem. Well, that created another problem - see below for details and there response. Is there a exhaust donut or something else that can resolve my problem since they won't replace the defective part.

Conversation - 2-19-07:

Please wait for a site operator to respond.
You are now chatting with 'Stacey'
Stacey: Hello. How may I assist you?
you: Hello – I have a 2.5” pypes system purchased though your distributor with the only exception being the down pipes that, I purchased directly from Pypes. After installation I had an exhaust leak where the stock manifold connects to the down pipe on the passenger side only. After talking to your customer service tech people they suggested grinding down the end of the flange so it wouldn’t bottom out. I looked at the fit again when I got home and agreed that it was bottoming out. I used a micrometer and measured the flange and ground the down pipe down until it would no longer bottom out. Then the problem wasn’t bottoming out but, now there wasn’t enough flange left for the 2 bolt retainer ring to hold onto. As I attempted to tighten it would eventually slide over the existing flange. Is it possible that I just got a bad one that wasn’t correctly machined, what do I do now? Norm - Phoenix, AZ 85007
Stacey: let me ask one of our tech guys about this
you: ok
Stacey: ok, he said if you ground too much off that the flange won't stay on you can take it to a local muffler shop and they can re-bevel the end so the flange will stay on
you: I will try that, but that will put me back where I started and it will bottom out again ?
Stacey: as long as they don't make the bevel too much again you should be fine. Since it will be a person not just a machine I wouldn't think you'd have that problem again, sorry.
Stacey: I think machines make the ones we sell so a person isn't seeing that it's too much. I hope that makes sense.
you: I try but it not exactly the help that would be provided from someone with your repetation.
Stacey: I'm sorry about that
you: What's your return policy ?
Stacey: let me ask
you: Thx
Stacey: since it's been ground down too far it's not returnable. generally anything that's been installed or damaged while trying to install isn't returnable, sorry.
you: I will call the credit card company and let them handle it. It is without a doubt a defective part and it doesnt say much for a company that doent stand behind there product.
Stacey: I apoligize for that.
Stacey: Please hold one moment
Stacey: I'll be back as soon as I can, I'm on the phone with another customer
you: “since it's been ground down too far it's not returnable” -your company was the one who told me to grind it down which now voids the warranty ?
Stacey: that is correct, since it was ground down too far it is not returnable. we did have some where the bevels needed to be ground down a bit for clearance but that fixed the problem.
you: You don’t mind if I post this problem in every Pontiac forum for people to see what they are possibly in for with your products and how you stand behind it when there’s a problem?
Stacey: if you have any other questions you can call us at 215-712-9982, thank you.
you: I think you answered the question - I'll post it to see what others think.Thx, Norm

[Ron H]

Sorry to see you've had issues with your install etc. I know that www.drgas.com sells a ball joint instead of a standard flange that you could have an exhaust shop install for you. They seal better than a standard flange and are easier to R & R if you need to pull the engine etc.
too bad they are making a stand like this since they said to grind it and knew there was problems to start with.

[goatless]

What exactly was "bottoming out"? I'm a little confused as to what your original problem was. I've installed a few exhaust systems including Pypes and haven't experienced anything bottoming out.

[Sharkbait40]

The top of the flanged downpipe is wider then the widest point of exhaust manifold output flange so, when you tighten it using the provided two bolt retainer clamp it tops out on the manifold before making the flange to flange joint tight. I'm sure that alot of people have had good experiences with them, unfortunetly I got pipe that was out of there admitally normal tollerences, modified it per there instructions and now still have a problem.

[Ccass]

Originally Posted by Ron H

Sorry to see you've had issues with your install etc. I know that www.drgas.com sells a ball joint instead of a standard flange that you could have an exhaust shop install for you. They seal better than a standard flange and are easier to R & R if you need to pull the engine etc.
too bad they are making a stand like this since they said to grind it and knew there was problems to start with.

Shark is referring to the area where the downpipe meets the manifold. Essentially this connection is exactly like the ball joint you are referring to. The female pipe wraps around the ball (in this case the manifold end is the ball)

[Ccass]

Originally Posted by Sharkbait40

The top of the flanged downpipe is wider then the widest point of exhaust manifold output flange so, when you tighten it using the provided two bolt retainer clamp it tops out on the manifold before making the flange to flange joint tight. I'm sure that alot of people have had good experiences with them, unfortunetly I got pipe that was out of there admitally normal tollerences, modified it per there instructions and now still have a problem.

This problem is caused by one of two scenarios. Sometimes because old manifolds deteriorate, the ball becomes too small and sometimes the pipe flare can be too wide. Either scenario can prevent a nice seal. This is the first time I have ever received a complaint that the flare had to be ground down so far that the flange could no longer grasp the flare and went right over the pipe. If the pipe flare is too big to start and there is X amount of distance between the stud and the inside edge of the manifold, then grinding the flare so that it is still larger than the edge but smaller than the stud edge would solve the problem. Either the flange opening was too big or you over-ground the pipe flare. Usually a maximum of 1/8" is sufficient to allow the flare to seal to the manifold. Please take some pictures of the manifold ball and studs as well as the pipe flare. Also post the ID of the flange hole and the ID of the distance between the studs. If the pipe was misformed or the flange was the wrong size, you'll get a new pipe. I will post a picture(s) of this and we can compare the two and hopefully solve this problem.

btw, This area is to help members with exhaust solutions, not to vent about disatisfaction with the way a supplier handled a situation. We have a separate forum for that. If this topic turns into a bitch session, I'll have it moved or deleted.

[PaulatFast]

"Why not just give the guy a new pipe!"?
I know, send him a new manifold and flange too! If it turns out the problem is in his motor mounts or trans mount, send him those as well. If there is still an issue, have his frame checked and straightened for him. If the problem were that simple to remedy, Chris would have taken care of it already. There are many factors that affect head pipe / flange engagement. To send the guy a new head pipe without addressing the issue as to why it doesn't fit would be a waste of time and money. Paul

[Brandi Kay]

"You send him a new pipe and if there is a problem again then you deal with it. How much can that pipe cost you, now you have a guy bad mouthing you to anyone who will listen to him, to me customer service is more important then bad press"


Right on

Good customer service is not an option.

[firebum]

I have installed two Pypes systems on two of my Camaros and had no problems. If I did have a problem and was treated like he was treated, all over a ten dollar part, I would not be as nice as he is. Get your customer service act together.

Jim

[pont406]

Sounds like he may have ground too much off, Chris looks to be trying to fix the problem. I don't care who you buy these Exhaust systems from, there NOT a 100% perfect bolt on in all cases, too much variation between frames, motors,headers, manifolds, etc. why bother just sending another pipe, when he might be able to use the one he has!

[Ccass]

Originally Posted by 1coolfish

Why not just give the guy a new pipe!

Beause there is a good possibility that doesn't solve the problem.

[sts]

There is another post that gives you all the documentation you need. It's documented that the Pypes is a pos for first generation f-bodies--dey even say so with the "redesigned" system.

Give that information to your creditor and tell them that Pypes has a defective product on the market, and you want a 100% refund. They can try to do all the fast talk they want to, but they don't have a leg to stand on when they claim that the product they have sold is defective. Altering it to fit only adds to your valid complaint. Tell you to alter it; then, not warranty it? If they can operate sucesfully with such a policy, this shows that the majority of the population to whom they sell aren't that bright.

[PaulatFast]

sts, how do you explain the fact that I have installed over two dozen PYPES systems and NEVER had a problem that a little patience and common sense couldn't easily overcome? Yes, we have done first gen f-body systems. It's only metal, but you have to be smarter than it is!

[Geoff]

Ccass,
I would like to compliment you on this GREAT forum that you provide FREE of charge. I don't know of a Pontiac forum that has a more comprehensive 'talk fest' for Pontiac related subjects. It seems to me you have copped a bashing for a fit problem that may not be even caused by your product. One only has to look back through the archives to see that you have always endeavoured to sort problems out, rather than have an unhappy customer; a good track record. People are now taking pot shots at you, using the forum that you pay for & maintain for OUR benefit!! Some people should think a little longer before they start stabbing the finger at the keyboard.

[Brandi Kay]

I installed my whole X pipe with dumps 3 inch exhaust in walmarts parking lot, I started at 1 am and finished at 4 am. (not welded)

When it fell apart, ( LOL! ) I had running great auto weld it.


I didn't have the strength to tighten the bolts enough

[Barrier Blue]

Originally Posted by Brandi Kay

I installed my whole X pipe with dumps 3 inch exhaust in walmarts parking lot, I started at 1 am and finished at 4 am. (not welded)

When it fell apart, ( LOL! ) I had running great auto weld it.


I didn't have the strength to tighten the bolts enough

LOL, yeah, those are some really heavy gauge pipes (QUALITY).
You really have to put some serious torque on those clamp nuts!

[Ccass]

Originally Posted by sts

There is another post that gives you all the documentation you need. It's documented that the Pypes is a pos for first generation f-bodies--dey even say so with the "redesigned" system.

Give that information to your creditor and tell them that Pypes has a defective product on the market, and you want a 100% refund. They can try to do all the fast talk they want to, but they don't have a leg to stand on when they claim that the product they have sold is defective. Altering it to fit only adds to your valid complaint. Tell you to alter it; then, not warranty it? If they can operate sucesfully with such a policy, this shows that the majority of the population to whom they sell aren't that bright.

STS, Did you have a problem with a 1st Gen Firebird system? Whatever problem it was, go ahead and post your topic and I'll address it. If you already have an old topic started, make a post to bring it back to the top. Please don't hijack this thread. This thread is about a downpipe problem.

[Ccass]

here are pictures of a standard manifold downpipe installation. Notice how the flare is not even close to the studs. There should be no need to grind the pipe down on these downpipes. This manifold is fully seated and should not leak.



here are pictures of a HO/RA manifold downpipe installation. Notice how the flare is actually touching the studs. This can prevent the flare from seating properly if it can't expand upon tightening. The Left hand picture shows the grinded flare. There is a larger gap above the flare and on the sides. This manifold is fully seated and will not leak.

[Larry Navarro]

I have this same problem on the SD with the Pypes crossflow setup,
passenger side manifold/downpipe juncture.
I've been putting off checking the connection and would have never figured the flange on the downpipe would be the problem.
great info. pics definetly do help.

[1coolfish]

They really do have some great product's.