[fattie]

hi guys. last september i bought a 65 catalina 4dr. it was all original except for the back seat and paint. it had brand new white wall tires and new brakes all around i paid only 1000 dollars.

some info on the car.

blue/white 65 4dr
389 v8 with 2bbl carb
automatic


now im in the procces or semi-restoring it. after this big storm that recently kicked our butts here on the maine coast i found the bottom of the car to be full of water. so i figured now (2 days ago) would be a good time to rip up all the old carpeting and stuff. so i got the front seat out and ripped all the old smelly nasty carpet out , and all the stuff under it. i was amazed to find the floorboards completley rust free and solid ( amazing for being 40+ years old and being a maine car ) while doing this i noticed one small wire on each side running into the trunk , are these the brake and tail light wires ? one of them was cut. there is also a wide strip of somesort running along the drivers side , what is this for ?

the engine runs good but is pretty tired and has 102k miles on it, the tranny feels very smooth and shifts good. now i have a fe questions about the tranny , i want to put a mtx in it , will any trannys out of say a bonneville or gto bolt up ? im thinking of rebuilding the complete engine and replacing the rope rms with something a little tougher. im also going to put some type of intake on with a 4 bbl carb. what would you reccomend ?

im also wondering on how to get the back seat out ? i didnt look much for bolts but tommorro is suppose to be nice so im gunna try to get it out. i know theres more questions i have but im tired and cant remember all of them.

if anybody could give me any advice that would be awsome. im 20 years old and i love this old car and im going to try to do most of the work myself. thanks so much guys

fattie


edit- heres some pics i took a few weeks ago.

[mike nixon]

congrats on the cat, it's a looker in that color scheme.

the rear main, use the bop neopreme seal.

re the rear seat bottom, push in at the bottom and lift up it'll come loose. the blots for the upper part will be visible then.

the flat strip is the wiring for the lights /trunk/ ect.

give us a color of the cut wire, if it's factory someone will have a schematic.

the trannies will bolt, but use a longer tailshaft. the th400 should be what's in your car. it's a tough trannie. also the manual linkage se up for your car is pretty tough to find.

define tired on the engine. does it burn oil? smoke or knock? low oil pressure?

it may just need some minor repair for the short term.

4-v intake and carb, if you're doing a basically stock rebuild then i'd hunt for a factory intake and afb carb. they're a good setup for the heavy cars like yours.

welcome to the forums,

mike

[Tanksta]

Welcome to the Darkside.....

Good to see another "Big Car" guy on here. Congrats on the Cat.
You will find a plethora of information here.
I have done a few mods to mine, including the tranny swap and intake/carb switch.
A simple search on the subjects should present a few posts regarding them. Good luck and keep posting.

[Hitman]

If I were you I would only change the intake and carb and like prez said look for an original cast intake and 4bbl with the vacuum choke. You really wont gain much as I have learned thru asking with the other aftermarket stuff. They were designed at the factory very well for maximum torque for these heavy cars. The 65 line did not win car of the year for nothing. As far as the seat the last time I pulled a rear seat I pulled up at the top of the rear seat to free it from the hooks and then pushed down to release the bottom. As far as the bottom seat you will see how it comes out once you get the top part off. Rebuild that TH400 you already have a solid tranny no need to swap it out. Good luck with it from one 65 Cat owner to another.

[64catdroptop]

Fattie,

Great looking CAT! It's nice to see that you don't have to be an old fart like some of us to enjoy the old Detroit Iron. Glad you went with Pontiac, they're awesome. And ditto on what Mike, Tanksa, and Hitman said. We'll all be glad to help you out with whatever you're working on, on that great old tin indian!

Ron

[Deadhead]

Welcome, & cool car.

I took my '66 2 Dr. Bonneville to ME twice. 1200 Mi. one way. Ferried it out to Isleboro for a whole summer one year. Drove it up Cadillac Mt. & all around Acadia area another. Great location for a Big Pontiac.

4bbl factory intake & Carter AFB will fix you right up. Find an original carb & don't go with the reproduction. Easy to rebuild & parts readily available. Better mileage & performance in the end. Add dual exhaust & you will be plenty happy with the result IMO. You can not beat a TH400 trans. Thrash it all you want.

If you do swap to a 4bbl manifold & AFB, I would try to find a whole assembly even if the carb is crummy. Then you would have the plumbing for a brake booster. I noticed that you have manual brakes. Car would be a bear to stop under the new 4bbl set-up. I had a booster that was going bad on me in mine, & really did not like the effect at all. Would be easy to convert. I bought a working booster off E-Bay for under $20 not long ago & swapped out my old one.

[fattie]

hey thanks guys. i didnt expect so many replys so soon!! ive been searching all over the internet for a forum that wasnt dead and i just found this one and im glad i took the time to look harder.

as for the 2 wires that run along the sides under the carpet. its just clear with copper colored wires. im gunna follow them all the way back to see where they lead.

well the reason i think the engine is tired , is sometimes it runs like crap and when i go out for a drive it will sometimes stall at stoplights and stuff. and it barley has enough power to spin the tires , even when i stomp on it.

so i should look for a stock 4bbl intake ? you wouldnt reccomend an edlebrock or something similar? is this car equiped with an egr system ? one more thing. do you now where i can find a decent set of headers without spending 500-600 dollar ? i was looking through summit and jegs and they have headers for the tempest or gto or something but they have the correct year of 65 so will they be compatible ? thanks so much ill get some pics of what i did inside.

edit- yea , the car looks ok but it has its fair share of dents and dings along the body , rust on the bumpers , the windows leak , right now i have them sealed with duct tape untill i get a nice day i can take them out , clean em up and have someone put them in right for me. the dash has cracks , the interoir has some rust from the previous owner not taking care of it. it needs a new glove box , left front door panel is gone. and i need a new front seat. but theres guy who lives about 5 miles from here , he has like 8 or 9 big pontiac , mostly rusted but if you guys need parts i can what he has , i know he has catalinas , a star chief i think and some other ones , mostly 60's. anyways he has a electric front seat that matches the rear , the rear seat came from him but the guy never bought the front. what would be a good price to pay ? i think he wants 200 , its mint just like the back seat.

[fattie]

ah , i didnt feel like editing again , but the compliments , questions and stares i get while driving the car makes it totaly worth it. people just seem to love this car. ever where i go they ask. hey what year is that ? what kind of car ? what kinda engine ? how old is that thing ? just the other day i was working on it in my yard and some older guy was joggin by , he was like hey is that a 66 , im like noppe 65! he said cool and jogged off. lol , i have a feeling when i fix this thing up it may help me get chicks ? who knows haha

[Deadhead]

Originally Posted by fattie

hey thanks guys. i didnt expect so many replys so soon!! ive been searching all over the internet for a forum that wasnt dead and i just found this one and im glad i took the time to look harder.

as for the 2 wires that run along the sides under the carpet. its just clear with copper colored wires. im gunna follow them all the way back to see where they lead.

well the reason i think the engine is tired , is sometimes it runs like crap and when i go out for a drive it will sometimes stall at stoplights and stuff. and it barley has enough power to spin the tires , even when i stomp on it.

so i should look for a stock 4bbl intake ? you wouldnt reccomend an edlebrock or something similar? is this car equiped with an egr system ? one more thing. do you now where i can find a decent set of headers without spending 500-600 dollar ? i was looking through summit and jegs and they have headers for the tempest or gto or something but they have the correct year of 65 so will they be compatible ? thanks so much ill get some pics of what i did inside.

edit- yea , the car looks ok but it has its fair share of dents and dings along the body , rust on the bumpers , the windows leak , right now i have them sealed with duct tape untill i get a nice day i can take them out , clean em up and have someone put them in right for me. the dash has cracks , the interoir has some rust from the previous owner not taking care of it. it needs a new glove box , left front door panel is gone. and i need a new front seat. but theres guy who lives about 5 miles from here , he has like 8 or 9 big pontiac , mostly rusted but if you guys need parts i can what he has , i know he has catalinas , a star chief i think and some other ones , mostly 60's. anyways he has a electric front seat that matches the rear , the rear seat came from him but the guy never bought the front. what would be a good price to pay ? i think he wants 200 , its mint just like the back seat.

See my edit regarding the manifold.

They make repop long branch manifolds that work fine. I would not fight headers. These are just as good for these cars & they will actually fit.

That is a fair price for an electric seat in good shape. You will like it. I have one in my '66 wagon. Be sure to remove it yourself carefully if you can & get the wiring (to the seat & to the battery) and the breaker on the firewall.

There is somebody on E-Bay that sells the gloveboxes. Have never bought one but can't be that hard to do a cardboard thing the right way I would not think.

Tell us what else he has. Always looking for stuff!

[fattie]

Originally Posted by Deadhead

See my edit regarding the manifold.

They make repop long branch manifolds that work fine. I would not fight headers. These are just as good for these cars & they will actually fit.

That is a fair price for an electric seat in good shape. You will like it. I have one in my '66 wagon. Be sure to remove it yourself carefully if you can & get the wiring (to the seat & to the battery) and the breaker on the firewall.

There is somebody on E-Bay that sells the gloveboxes. Have never bought one but can't be that hard to do a cardboard thing the right way I would not think.

Tell us what else he has. Always looking for stuff!

what do you mean you would not fight headers ? i thought that may be a decent price for the seat , but my main thing is will it bolt up ? ill just keep it manual cuz im not sure i wanna mess with wires and stuff. ames perf sells glove box's and ill probaly get one from them since there the next state over and seem to have decent prices. when i talk to him ill see what he has for cars.

[AROWHED]

Clear copper colored sounds like non-factory speaker wires. Yeah, 60's fullsize Pontiacs are cool but as far as being chick magnets? I dunno...maybe if you dig 45+ year olds! LOL
IF you really want headers and can't find listings for 65 fullsize, jsut search for 69 Firebird. Stay away from 3-tube headers. Summit headers will have to be stripped and repainted with extreme heat paint before installation or they will rust in no time flat.

[fattie]

Originally Posted by AROWHED

Clear copper colored sounds like non-factory speaker wires. Yeah, 60's fullsize Pontiacs are cool but as far as being chick magnets? I dunno...maybe if you dig 45+ year olds! LOL
IF you really want headers and can't find listings for 65 fullsize, jsut search for 69 Firebird. Stay away from 3-tube headers. Summit headers will have to be stripped and repainted with extreme heat paint before installation or they will rust in no time flat.

well when i got the back seat up i found the wires leading to nowhere so im guessing they were just speaker wire. to be honest with ya , i wouldnt mind having an older women , i hate dating young girls there so stupid and immature. just 2 weeks ago my girlfriend of 3 years broke up with me because she wanted to go out and have fun and have no rules and drink and do drugs and be naughty with her friends. , so 69 firebird headers will fit ? why stay away from 3tube ? well im glad to find the whole floorboard is pretty much solid , its not rusted out anywhere so im very pleased. althought most the interoir peices are junk and ive gutta throw em out. but other than that im wicked happy.

[Deadhead]

Originally Posted by fattie

what do you mean you would not fight headers ? i thought that may be a decent price for the seat , but my main thing is will it bolt up ? ill just keep it manual cuz im not sure i wanna mess with wires and stuff. ames perf sells glove box's and ill probaly get one from them since there the next state over and seem to have decent prices. when i talk to him ill see what he has for cars.

Seat will bolt up no Prob. I would check out the archives on the headers. I know there have been a lot of headaches there.

My advice on the interior & the rest for that matter is don't throw anything away. You will find that locating parts for these beasts is a challenge. When you do find something, you often wish you had a part from whatever you took out to make it work.

[mike nixon]

Originally Posted by AROWHED

Clear copper colored sounds like non-factory speaker wires. Yeah, 60's fullsize Pontiacs are cool but as far as being chick magnets? I dunno...maybe if you dig 45+ year olds! LOL

i don't know mike, i just talked to a 20 yr old hottie who had seen my g/p and thought it was cool. there may be hope yet.

imo,headers would be a pita on a 65 b body. if i was set on them i'd spend the money for a GOOD set.

the long branches are looking better all the time to me.

mike

[66bonne]

four door sedan !! haven't seen one of those in awhile, nice ride

[mike nixon]

Originally Posted by fattie

well the reason i think the engine is tired , is sometimes it runs like crap and when i go out for a drive it will sometimes stall at stoplights and stuff. and it barley has enough power to spin the tires , even when i stomp on it.

if it's an itermittent drivability problem that doesn't mean the engine's tired. it means the car needs a good tune up / going over, possibly a timing chain. if the engine needs a major overhaul it's going to run bad all the time, smoke blue, have low oil pressure and probably make some noises.

the lack of power might be the result of 2:42 gears and a poor state of tune.

i'd start with a compression test and go from there.

mike

[fattie]

Originally Posted by mike nixon

if it's an itermittent drivability problem that doesn't mean the engine's tired. it means the car needs a good tune up / going over, possibly a timing chain. if the engine needs a major overhaul it's going to run bad all the time, smoke blue, have low oil pressure and probably make some noises.

the lack of power might be the result of 2:42 gears and a poor state of tune.

i'd start with a compression test and go from there.

mike

no blue smoke or anything but when it sits in one spot and runs it leaks a black mark on the ground. no idea what it is or why. maybe im running rich or something.

[mike nixon]

it sounds to me like you need to give the car a major tuning.

mike

[fattie]

Originally Posted by mike nixon

it sounds to me like you need to give the car a major tuning.

mike

what do you mean by major tuning ?

heres what i had planned.

fuel filter ( where is it ? )
spark plugs and wires ( what do you reccomend )
valve cover gaskets
water pump gaskets ( ive got some coolant leakage around this area and i think thats what it is )
coolant flush
belts ( where can i get em ? )
thermostat ( what temp ? )
new hoses ( where i can get em? )
dist cap and rotor button
points ???? i have no idea where they are and how to do em
oil change and filter and pan filters ????
fuel additive ?
alernator
starter
power sterring flush ( how do i do it ? )
anything else im forgetting ???

ive got a question about the rear main seal , i wanna replace it with a new one because i heard there made of rope and break easily.

and today i did notice the exhaust hada touch of blue to it so im guessing im buring oil. but i got it changed back in september and have oil put a few hundred miles on the car and i checked it today and it doesnt look like ive lost barley any.

one more question, the midle wire on the dist cap leads to a little cylinder with 2 wires , one is + the other is - , what is this ? a coil ?


thanks guys i wanna get this thing running good enough to be a dd. thanks

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by fattie

fuel filter ( where is it ? )
It's right on the front of the engine, on the driver's side of the water pump.

spark plugs and wires ( what do you reccomend )
Champion RJ12YC or equal for the plugs, you should be able to get a decent wire set at any good auto parts store.

valve cover gaskets

water pump gaskets ( ive got some coolant leakage around this area and i think thats what it is )
It could also be the water pump itself leaking around the shaft, so check that as well.

coolant flush

belts ( where can i get em ? )
Again, a good auto parts store should have them.

thermostat ( what temp ? )
180 degree thermostat is probably right.

new hoses ( where i can get em? )
The auto parts store should be able to get them, otherwise try the Performance Years catalog - look at the top of this page for a link.

dist cap and rotor button

points ???? i have no idea where they are and how to do em
They're inside the distributor cap, along with the rotor. Again, available at the auto parts store.

oil change and filter and pan filters ????
Steve P. can comment better on changing the transmission filter than I can.

fuel additive ?
There's a lot of snake oil out there - I like Techron additive, if you think you need it. It may be a better idea to just go ahead and rebuilt the carburetor.

alernator
starter
Unless the car won't start or hold a charge, they're both probably working okay and I'd leave them alone for now.

power sterring flush ( how do i do it ? )
There are two hoses connected between the power steering pump, a high pressure supply and a low pressure return. The return hose is just held on with hose clamps while the supply hose has special ends on it. One way to flush the steering system is to disconnect the return line at the pump and stick it in a bucket. Then, turn on the car, and as the old fluid pumps out the end of the hose add fresh fluid to the pump until you see fresh fluid running out the hose. Then stop the engine and put the hose back on, and top off the pump. You have to be careful you don't run the pump dry which could damage it.

anything else im forgetting ???
New air filter. Check for cracked or dried out gas lines, all the way from the engine back to the gas tank. Also check the vacuum hose from the distributor to the carburetor.

ive got a question about the rear main seal , i wanna replace it with a new one because i heard there made of rope and break easily.
To get to the rear seal you pretty much have to take the whole thing apart. Unless it's dumping oil out the back of the block I wouldn't worry about it. Even if it is leaking a little, I'd still leave it unless you're going to pull the engine and do a total rebuild...it's not a big deal for an old car to drip a little bit here and there. Throw a piece of cardboard on the garage floor to soak up the excess.

and today i did notice the exhaust hada touch of blue to it so im guessing im buring oil. but i got it changed back in september and have oil put a few hundred miles on the car and i checked it today and it doesnt look like ive lost barley any.
It's not uncommon for these cars to blow a little blue smoke when they're old. It may be worn and dried out valve seals in the heads, but it could also be worn rings. Unless you're killing mosquitos every time you drive it, again I wouldn't worry about it for now - you should be able to make it run fine even if it's burning a little oil.

one more question, the midle wire on the dist cap leads to a little cylinder with 2 wires , one is + the other is - , what is this ? a coil ?
Yes, that's the ignition coil.

thanks guys i wanna get this thing running good enough to be a dd. thanks

Judging by your questions, it sounds like you're pretty new at this old car stuff...I'd suggest getting a book on beginning auto repair and doing some studying. The problem is most auto repair books these days probably don't have a lot to say about older cars with carburetors and ignition points. Check with the local library to see what they have first, at least that's free. A set of factory shop manuals for you car would be real good to have. You can find originals at swap meets, on eBay or from online dealers, or you can get reprints from Performance Years or other sources, and there are copies on CD-ROM these days. Another idea is to look for an old Motors or Chilton manual at a swap meet or used book store. They can usually be found pretty cheap, and they have a lot of good general information. Each edition covers six years' worth of cars, so you don't need to find one from the exact year as the car - as an example, I have a 1973 issue of the Motors manual on the shelf here and it covers all the way back to 1967.