[Poncho60]

R.A.R.E. lists their repro long branch manifolds all the way down to 1960 on B-bodies. Anyone done this or have good info on it. My concerns are--

Drivers side--probably need a short solenoid minimum

Passenger side-- will my generator bracket still fit?
-- I have the stock draft tube, may need to remove and do
something different, or possibly bend it toward the rear to
clear the repositioned oil filter
--Reposition oil filter with angled adapter

The most obvious solution is why bother, but they do look cool and would probably give at least a few more HP. Any comments, observations, suggestions appreciated---thx.

Randy

[Jack Gifford]

I'm doing almost exactly that with the '58 engine I'm finishing up now. The R.A.R.E. long-branch manifolds bolt up okay to the early heads, but port alignment isn't great. I fussed long enough to get good port matching, but it required a lot of time on my mill. I started with the heads on the mill, installing plates to un-siamese the two center ports. I then milled open the ports to a later ('64 maybe?) gasket, and did a slight amount of hand porting to match the manifold ports to the gasket. Then I mocked the manifolds onto the heads and used a dental mirror (through the bare head's exhaust ports) to exactly align the ports. Since the manifold bolt holes allow a lot of movement (and a few holes needed elongating), I then dowel pinned the manifolds to the heads, so they'll always go back on identically.

I believe your bellhousing positions the starter identically to my '58. My original '58 starter doesn't clear the manifold- not merely the solenoid, but the starter body itself. I don't know if your '60 or any other early starter is any shorter than mine, which is 8 1/2" long and 4 1/4" diameter where it interferes with the manifold. But even if you find a starter motor that will clear, I doubt you'll solve the solenoid issue. The pictures I've seen of the GMC starter (with the solenoid rotated) don't appear that it would solve it- but I could be wrong, not having had one in my hands. Also, I don't know the solenoid position on the starter for the '55 cars with power steering.

I received my IMI-122 mini-starter (called "Hi-Torque") yesterday, and it looks like a nice piece. The nose dimensions are all correct to bolt up to the early housing (gear diameter & tooth count, gear extension, register diameter, mounting pattern, and bolt size). But it only provides six different "clockings", none of which work. However, it looks like I'll merely need to drill and counterbore two more small holes in the mounting flange to "clock" it to where it will clear everything. I'm also going to install a thread insert into the top mounting hole of the IMI flange, so the two mounting bolts will go in from opposite directions, the way they did with the Pontiac starter- otherwise, there wouldn't be much room to install a nut there. Direct from IMI, it cost $185 plus shipping.

I don't recall the '60 generator mounting- did it use the manifold for one mount point?

I've changed from road-draft ventilation to PCV. Where the road-draft tube used to enter the valley cover, I brazed in an adaptor down to 1/2", to connect a hose to a PCV valve, which then connects to a vacuum port in the center carb base. I also made an "oil shield" of sheet metal, which I brazed about 1/4" below the rectangular opening in the bottom of the cover, to hopefully prevent liquid oil from splashing into the vent (now PCV) cavity. I've got auto-store breathers in both valve covers. Don't know how well the PCV will work- haven't run it yet.

I'm postponing the decision about angled vs. remote oil filter, until I set the engine into the truck and see how clearance (to floorboards, crossmember, or whatever) looks.

[Poncho60]

Wow--thanks for the reply and all the info. I would assume like you that the starter situation between 58 and 60 is basically the same---so I guess I would have the same issues to deal with. I wonder if the ports on your 370 heads are smaller than those on the earlier 389s. I was thinking that all the D-port heads were the same, but I guess that wouldn't make sense since there were high HP engines. If the ports on the exhaust manifolds are larger than the head ports, I wouldn't think that would matter that much. However, if the manifold port edge creeps into the opening of the head port that could be a problem. As far as the generator bracket is concerned, the front (lower) mounting bolt is the lower front manifold bolt location, and the rear (lower) moounting bolt is the front/middle manifold bolt location.

I guess I do not really want to get into port matching and all that stuff, as much as I think the look of these manifolds is really bit@#$n. I will have to consider if it's really worth all the hassle, especially if you just notice the performance difference at the top end.

Thx again.

[Jack Gifford]

Sorry for the lengthy response. My '58 heads had much smaller ports (at the gasket) than even early 389's, and of course had the siamesed center ports. That's why I put so much effort into it. You probably wouldn't need to actually do port-matching, but I would suggest that you check the alignment, and eliminate any impingement on the heads' ports. I wouldn't want to discourage you from using the long-branch manifolds. I don't have any "hard numbers", but users seem to agree that they make a noticable improvement in power.
As I finish up mounting the IMI starter, I'll post again about the location of the two new holes needed.
Sounds like some fabrication will be needed with your generator mount, since the long-branch are much thicker at the bolt bosses.

[Poncho60]

Sounds like you have quite a project going. Thx again for the feedback. I took a look again at my setup, and the generator bracket might not actually be so much as an issue---could be as simple as "adjusting" a couple of the bend angles in the bracket. I will be very interested in your starter solution when you get it all worked out. Have a good one and thx again!

[Jack Gifford]

The IMI starter required somewhat more adaptation than I first thought, but it's done now.

I chose to cut the IMI .400" thk aluminum spacer down to .220" thick to get correct starter pinion depth, but you could also ask IMI about other steel spacers available. The two steel that came with it were each .075" thick, so one .070" thick would do it. The steel ones are smaller O.D. and wouldn't need the half-moon cuts for bolt/nut/wrench clearance.

A Heli-Coil or Nut-Sert would be easier, but I used pieces I had on hand- turned a .624" diameter shoulder on a stainless 7/16-14 nut and counterbored the plate .619" diameter to press-fit the nut in. In case the nut ever decides to turn in its bore, I milled the top of the plate .050" so an open-end wrench fits in.

The aluminum mounting plate required two new holes and counterbores to 'clock' the starter to the only position that would clear everything.

With it finally finished, it mounts like the original Pontiac starter did- top bolt in from the rear and bottom bolt in from the front.

I may also send this info to IMI to ask if they might be interested in offering a "bolt-in" starter package for '55-60 Pontiac.

[Poncho60]

Jack-

I'm impressed to say the least. It looks like the starter has a lot of clearance around it now. I guess I will have to look into the IMI starter if I'm going to get serious about this. I was hoping that there wasn't going to be this much involved since RARE lists the long branch exh as fitting the 1960 chassis---guess that was asking too much. I will definitely save all of your valuable input in case I decide to go this route. I actually have access to some pretty sophisticated machining capability at work, but I'm not the machinist so it's hard to get stuff done unfortunately----doesn't always work out with my "schedule". Still, I do love the looks of these exhausts and think they would add a big "surprise" factor under the hood of my 60. Thx again for all of your input---I hope there are some others looking at this thread who will pursue it, even if I don't.

Randy A.

[Jack Gifford]

I wrote to IMI, asking if they might want to offer a bolt-in mini-starter package for '55-60 Pontiac. I enclosed a copy of my 3/30/06 post (w/photos) above, and all details I could think of. We'll see whether they respond or not.

[Mantra]

The R.A.R.E. long-branch manifold...

Do you guys have a link for these.

[Poncho60]

Go to your favorite search engine and type in "ramairrestoration"---bingo! You're there!

[Jack Gifford]

Originally Posted by pontiac jack

I wrote to IMI, asking if they might want to offer a bolt-in mini-starter package for '55-60 Pontiac. I enclosed a copy of my 3/30/06 post (w/photos) above, and all details I could think of. We'll see whether they respond or not.

Well... no response- guess they weren't interested.