[GonicGM]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...5523%26fvi%3D1

Anyone notice the air conditioning compressor and brackets, supposedly removed from that car? Not 71, 70 or earlier with aluminum bracket. Also definitely not Firebird as the reservoir, accumulator?, is on the side of the compressor like a GP. Firebird is a shorter fatter one located in front of the RF wheelhouse.

[cliffhanger]

just my 2 cents
but why is it that lately every single transam or formula on ebay is opened in a new topic and bitched and whined about its originality and if or if not a part might be numbers matching or not? what is the frickin' goal, what fun is it to crack down a perfectly good car?

my washer reservoir had a leak so i put a junkyard vauxhall one in the car, is it so hard to imagine that things break down or got replaced in 36 years? should people then start bitchin that the reservoir isnt original/matching numbers so the value of the car should be cut in half? what a load of bull......

anyway, to still give a comment on the question (should it be pure interest instead of bitchin'), it might have been replaced by a grand prix part f.e. as it might have broken down somewhere along its 36 years of life. the present owner might not even know about it. I wouldn't even know about it either...

[kai]

It appears to have made it's reserve price at only 31K (or earlier).

[pmdclassics]

I wonder what the underside looked like. Nice car and nice price for the buyer.

[GonicGM]

Originally Posted by cliffhanger

just my 2 cents
but why is it that lately every single transam or formula on ebay is opened in a new topic and bitched and whined about its originality and if or if not a part might be numbers matching or not? what is the frickin' goal, what fun is it to crack down a perfectly good car?

my washer reservoir had a leak so i put a junkyard vauxhall one in the car, is it so hard to imagine that things break down or got replaced in 36 years? should people then start bitchin that the reservoir isnt original/matching numbers so the value of the car should be cut in half? what a load of bull......

anyway, to still give a comment on the question (should it be pure interest instead of bitchin'), it might have been replaced by a grand prix part f.e. as it might have broken down somewhere along its 36 years of life. the present owner might not even know about it. I wouldn't even know about it either...

WOW...feel better now?

You miss the point. The issue is not "numbers matching" whatsoever.

Auction statement is as follows:
"A/C compressor removed, does come with car, have all brackets and bolts"
Seller is infering that that compressor, brackets and bolts were removed from that car. That statement is false and misleading. That setup might bolt to the engine. I doubt the reservoir would clear the inner fenderwell and I can't even imagine what the hose routing would look like. A seller statement such as 'original A/C compressor and mounting brackets missing, setup from another Pontiac is included' Although the setup is still worthless to that car as it is incorrect and probably would not fit or function, at least the seller would be accurate and not misleading.

You're suggesting that the old compressor went bad and they replaced it with another from a junkyard. Well, if my alternator lets go, I don't remove the alternator with every associated nut bolt and bracket and replace with likewise. I remove just the alternator. So, if my air conditioning compressor goes bad, I replace just the compressor.

Like many A/C cars, my 72 was missing those same items. I mean they were gone, not mounted, included or even available. I suspect that was the case with this 71 as well because the parts shown in the auction were not from that car. I was fortunate to obtain that same setup from a 71 Formula 400 4 speed. Looks nothing like the auction image. FormulaBruce helped me with a few other pieces from a 72.

I post on this site regularly. There was a guy with a Formula that had shift linkage binding problems on his car that I helped him rectify, another guy with a pinion seal leak, another with a oil burning problem. Each posted to the forum thanking me for my help. A lot of the information I post to the forum many find enlightening or educational. Those who don't feel that way, so be it. It is also a venue where we can debate what is correct or not. We all may have reasons or information to feel so while others to the contrary. Ultimately, we all step forward in our quest with these cars.

This site is an open forum for registered users and we are all free to post within what the moderators allow.

My post may have been enlightening to some. The fact of the compressor and brackets being wrong does not significantly change the value of the car. It does however challenge the credibility of the seller. A Michigan car, for how many years?, with 125k, every thing rust free? Maybe.

BTW, it is missing the heat riser crossover, preheat shields, I believe the alternator is wrong based on the fan and there is no image showing the shaker on the egine to display if it is correct. It looks to have an HEI. Carb...who knows. Looks correct vintage.

So sellers statement:
"1971 Pontiac Trans Am 455 H.O. Matching # + Bonus!"
Is really incorrect and should be taken with a grain of salt. Like my 72, sellers statement shoud be '1971 Pontiac Trans Am 455 H.O. with original motor, trans., carb, rear end' to whatever extend that statement would be accurate and the seller educated enough to know it and prove it.

That car is very attractive and puts my 72 to shame. Yet, it's still an automatic A/C, so even though I can afford it, I didn't bid high enough to win it.

[Norwood]

Gregg, you forgot to mention that the fenders are NOT 70-72 fenders, they are later ones. I wonder what happened to the originals? Maybe they rusted out.........
Nice looking car though

[GonicGM]

Originally Posted by Norwood

Gregg, you forgot to mention that the fenders are NOT 70-72 fenders, they are later ones. I wonder what happened to the originals? Maybe they rusted out.........
Nice looking car though

Good one!

BTW Norwood, thank you for the 70-72 stripe width info.

[nicksL98]

Originally Posted by GonicGM

So sellers statement:
"1971 Pontiac Trans Am 455 H.O. Matching # + Bonus!"
Is really incorrect and should be taken with a grain of salt. Like my 72, sellers statement shoud be '1971 Pontiac Trans Am 455 H.O. with original motor, trans., carb, rear end' to whatever extend that statement would be accurate and the seller educated enough to know it and prove it.

Are you sure you aren't a Corvette Nut? I took the guy's title as, Matching numbers original block heads, trans, rear. + Bonus wheels and PHS documentation. I'd also love to have that car but I'm poor so I'll keep working on my 72.

[GonicGM]

I guess everyone has their own definition of 'numbers matching'. To a further extend, everyone has their own definition of 'restored'. The people that are willing to spend 30k-60k are probably educated enough and picky enough to determine the cars accuracy and thus the car sells for 34k versus 40k, 45k. I don't know if the owner is long term and an enthusiast. There are so many 'dealers' flipping these things that make these claims 'numbers matching', 'all original', 'no rust ever' that I believe would not know any better otherwise.

[bird72]

Well, I'll say I see Cliffhangers point. The reason for this thread wasn't to show a TA that was nice. It was a nit pick thread. Not one nice thing said about car, just a thread to point out wrongs. I clicked on it to see good pics and first thing... wha wha wha wrong aghast, OMG! The extension of all this is the people that actually harass the ebay sellers, actually acting like they are buyers, but really just to needle and point out ignorance. I appreciate the sharing of incredible knowledge here, but what I get out of this is a, like someone said, a Corvette purists type thing..... we are glad your car is perfect. It is nice to have wrongs pointed out so we know RIGHT, but I feel for these sellers, what a jury to go in front of. And numbers matching doesn't mean every bracket is correct, it means (read) The Numbers Match! that is all.

[weranc55]

If I was in the market for a car I would be happy to know everything that is not correct on the car from the guys on this forum. If I'm a seller I'm still glad to know most of the stuff that is incorrect on my car so I can either correct it or disclose it. I f the comments are true then I dont think its ripping someones car apart. That blue 71 looked like a nice car and probable sold for the correct amount.

[Norwood]

Originally Posted by Norwood

Nice looking car though

I said somrthing nice.....

[tdavidl]

i, for one, appreciate these threads. i've learned so much over the years from threads just like this one. i've found out some things about my own car that i purchased in 2002 from threads like these.

if someone clicked on the link in my signature to critique my car i'd welcome it (i'm probably going to regret saying that ).

i've had a few folks over the years make comments about my car in threads, good & bad (someone said they didn't like the color, "poop" color they said)& some have emailed me with suggestions on ways to improve it (like the brake booster & MC).

[Lloyd-TX]

Originally Posted by tdavidl

i, for one, appreciate these threads. i've learned so much over the years from threads just like this one. i've found out some things about my own car . . . from threads like these.

Ditto!

[bird72]

Bird72 tells self: do not post in bad mood.... sorry guys, I slipped. The stuff I have learned on these threads is immense and I do appreciate the sharing of knowledge..... I do know I'll sell my car under another name if I ever do

[GREGGDOG]

One thing I did find a bit misleading was the color. PHS docs show Cameo White code and car is advertised as numbers matching- with the assumption it was originally Lucerne Blue. I confirmed the color as Cameo White with the seller.

[weranc55]

If thats the case he got real good money for that car. Market on that car should have been high 20's.

[68bird400HO]

In one of the auction pictures there appears to be a blue and white 1971 Firebird only brochure. I have never seen one of those, anyone else seen one or have one?