[Steve Barcak]

Poison- "That's great stuff. Did Pontiac get back into the factory racing stuff in the '60s?

No, they were not allowed until about 1985 after the Pontiac V-8 was killed. Then Pontiac started developing racing parts based on the chev engine, that is what I have labeled "corporate nonsense!" ( a nice way of saying corporate BS). Now, I am talking about factory race cars and parts. There were individuals and dealerships who raced Pontiacs after the Jan '63 ban but, they were mostly in the lower classes as the higher classes generally went to the Fords and Mopars who were constantly coming out with wilder, tricker stuff like HEMIs, SOHCs, tunnleports, Boss 429, 302, etc, etc. the Pontiac could not run with them as they were only offering and selling street cars while Mopar and Fomoco offered street cars and factory race cars. The '68 HEMI Cudas and Darts and the '64 427 Thunderbolt Fairlanes are some examples.




I read about the "swiss cheese cars." Were those factory or aftermarket? What year were those? They were factory built and are generally accepted as the zenith of Pontiac racing, at least for the full size models. The 421 Tempest were really something but, Pontiac only made about a dozen of them before the ban. My understanding is many more were planned to be made. Because of their limited production, they were not allowed to run in the A/FX classes, had to run modified production. They were made a few months prior to the ban. More were planned but, the ban stopped everything.

[Brian Baker]

These need no introduction, however...in looking at the chassis under the Super Judge, I'm wondering if it was the same chassis that was later under the Boss Bird?

[Brian Baker]

Here's another one that is mostly unknown by the Pontiac community. A Hemi powered Challenger that Arnie campaigned briefly in 1971. The car was owned by Vic Ferris from NY (Vic was allegedly connected with some "wise guys"). A before shot when Vic first campaigned it, and an after shot repainted when Arnie campaigned it. The car was destroyed over the July 4th weekend 1971 at a race in Union Grove, WI. See accompanying article from the July 17th, 1971 edition of Drag News.

[Brian Baker]

This one I have zero information on. Can anyone help?

[GonicGM]

Originally Posted by Brian Baker

Here's another one that is mostly unknown by the Pontiac community. A Hemi powered Challenger that Arnie campaigned briefly in 1971. The car was owned by Vic Ferris from NY (Vic was allegedly connected with some "wise guys"). A before shot when Vic first campaigned it, and an after shot repainted when Arnie campaigned it. The car was destroyed over the July 4th weekend 1971 at a race in Union Grove, WI. See accompanying article from the July 17th, 1971 edition of Drag News.

Off the Pontiac subject for a moment but while on Challengers...
The Hills Brothers campaigned an early Challenger AA flopper circa 1971-1974, it was white and had a very unique feature I was only aware with on that car. The car ran the northeast, I believe that car was based in the northeast as well. Does Brian or anyone remember the car or the feature?

[poison heart]

Ok Jack, I'm not sure what you meant by that but I'm getting the impression that you're not too fond of me. I just meant that Pontiacs aren't very popular performance wise compared to Chevy, Ford or Mopar. If you see a Pontiac line up with a Chevy at the racetrack chances are the majority of the crowd is going to be routing for the Chevy. I'm just saying Pontiacs get underestimated. Not to mention the lack of aftermarket compared to Chevy and Mopar.

Anyway, Back on track, let the photos flow

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by poison heart

Ok Jack, I'm not sure what you meant by that but I'm getting the impression that you're not too fond of me. I just meant that Pontiacs aren't very popular performance wise compared to Chevy, Ford or Mopar. If you see a Pontiac line up with a Chevy at the racetrack chances are the majority of the crowd is going to be routing for the Chevy. I'm just saying Pontiacs get underestimated. Not to mention the lack of aftermarket compared to Chevy and Mopar.

Anyway, Back on track, let the photos flow

Nah...Jack doesn't dislike you. He's just saying that times were different then, and with him having lived through them, special. I just turned 40 and I sometimes think I was born in the wrong era...all the stuff I like is considered "old" or "nostalgia".

[Brian Baker]

Great stuff, Steve. To expound a little more on what you said I'll try to more completely answer the "swiss cheese" question.

Keep in mind Poison' that back in those days, manufacturers would release new cars for sale typically in late summer or early fall. In other words, the 1963 models would have been available for sale to the general public usually by sometime in September 1962. This is how Pontiac managed to manufacture 1963 model year "race" cars. By 1963, through Pontiacs SD (Super Duty) racing program, they were not only offering up the horsepower, they were trying to find ways to make the cars lighter for competition. Factory race cars back then were for the most part full size cars, like the Catalina, Ford's Galaxie, etc. Using intermediate sized cars (which in latter years were cars like GTO, Chevelle, etc.) hadn't really been done before Pontiac stuffed a 421-SD engine into the little Tempest.

Back on the "swiss cheese" cars. By the 1963 model year, many manufacturers were building factory prepped "race" cars and making them as light as possible. They were doing things like installing lightweight seats in them, no sound deadener in the body and sometimes no carpet (just a rubber mat), and the greatest weight saver of all, aluminum body panels. Pontiac was no different, offering Catalina's with aluminum front fenders, hoods, bumpers, etc. Pontiac took it one step further and built (if memory serves correctly) 12 "swiss cheese" Catalina's. The term "swiss cheese" was dubbed by a well known automotive journalist from the time, his name being Roger Huntington. Roger was referring to the cars frames. The factory had drilled many holes, some of them quite large, along the entire length of the frames in these cars in an effort to cut more weight. Roger commented in an article he penned that they looked like so much "swiss cheese" and the term stuck and is still used today to describe these rare cars. The idea was a flop, as the frame frequently broke and never in the same place twice after they were rewelded. By January 1963 when GM laid down the racing ban, it didn't matter anymore. Few of these cars survive today.

The other arrow in Pontiacs quiver was the '63 421-SD Tempest. Pontiac built 12 of these, 6 coupes and 6 wagons. They were quite unique in that they had a 4-speed transaxle in the rear of the car, with the flywheel and clutch out back, fed by what weas dubbed as a "rope" driveshaft from the engine. You had to use the clutch to launch these cars, but once underway they were shifted without the clutch, just like an automatic. They also had aluminum front ends on them, just like the bigger Cats. The pinnacle of Pontiac engineering in 1963, and in my opinion, these cars were the pinnacle of Pontiac racing. A few of these cars exist today as well.

If you'd like to learn more about Pontiac history, I would suggest getting a copy of Pete McCarthy's books on Pontiac's 1955-1981.

[Brian Baker]

It's possible the body in all 3 pics is the same body, but they are clearly on at least 2 seperate chassis'. The one on the far right appears to be like an earlier style Logghe, or Logghe type chassis, as the cage around the driver is more like what you would find in a door car, not the later wrap-around style "dragster" cages.

[poison heart]

Yeah, I see it also.

[Sirrotica]

Looks like angle plug heads to me, and it's # 438 page 22 on mine too. The first time I saw Beswick run on a dragstrip I was 18 years old in 71, it was with the 71 hemi challenger in Ohio, at Thompson Dragraceway, with the Coca Cola Cavalcade of stars. After years of gleaning over magazine articles about his Pontiacs as a kid, I was none too happy to see him wheeling a mopar product. I guess he hadda make a living, and at the time Pontiac had dried up as far as parts that could be used in a funny car and still be competitive. I don't recall where he ended up that night, but I do know he didn't win the race, I still wasn't happy though.

[poison heart]

The more I look at the pic the more I think they're angled also. Look at the 3rd plug back. You can see directly down into the head. The camera is "behind" the motor. Gives the impression that it is angled back like the mopar small blocks. Also look at the 2nd plug back. You can see more threads and not directly into it like the 3rd one. It looks to be angled forward.

[Jack Gifford]

Yeah, I can agree with y'all on the angled plugs. The heads are still a complete mystery to me, though. If Tom S would ask Fritz about them, we'd probably learn something.

[Steve Barcak]

The next obvious question about these special, custom heads would be..... are they alum? Could be painted. Wouldn't that be a nice find today? though they are probably still small valve with the early, narrow spacing. hmmmm

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by Steve Barcak

The next obvious question about these special, custom heads would be..... are they alum? Could be painted. Wouldn't that be a nice find today? though they are probably still small valve with the early, narrow spacing. hmmmm

Yup...probably some variant of what became the production 421-SD head, albeit with angled plugs. Makes one wonder if the plugs were changed if there were any other chagnes done to the combustion chamber.

[GonicGM]

Originally Posted by Steve Barcak

The next obvious question about these special, custom heads would be..... are they alum? Could be painted. Wouldn't that be a nice find today? though they are probably still small valve with the early, narrow spacing. hmmmm

With what appears to be the typical Pontiac Rust on the exhaust ports, I strongly doubt aluminum. They appear iron.

[misterp266]

I had trouble posting pics again but here's a good link to M/T pics......sorry no pics of the "mystery heads".

http://www.thompson-motorsports.com/drag.html

[triathlonx13]

Gary Woods

[triathlonx13]

[Pontiac Slim]

This showed up at New England Dragway a few weeks ago, Pontiac powered even!
Pontiac Slim