[_CHIEF]

Is it possible to install a 5 speed in a 69 without modifying the tunnel? The car is a Judge and it geting bolt on suspension upgrades with the numbers matching drivetrane being put in storage just in case I want to return it to stock at a later time.

I dont want to cut up the car, or if I do I want as little as possible in order to be able to return it to stock. I have contacted the Butlers about a potential all aluminum 541 EFI motor so I am looking for a standard to be able to handle the power. What would be the best option for this car?

The car is an original 4 speed car.

[69goatboy]

Who's 5- speed?

IIRC, the Tremec needs the tunnel modified. So does the Richmond 6-speed OD.

You could go with a stock type muncie with a GV overdrive unit. I do not think you'll have to chop up the tunnel, but I don't think a muncie will take what the 541 can put out.

Maybe others can chime in here, for I'm sure someone has done what you're planning to do.

[67GTONUT]

I have started the process of investigating for the Tremac also..... What I have found so far is....

If your bodymounts are fresh, and the car was a 4 speed to begin with, the tunnel just needs to be tweaked to fit the 5 speed.

If your bodymounts are old/compressed, you lose too much clearance to fit the trans without cutting the tunnel.

All auto cars need to be cut to fit a 5 speed.....

Still looking to confirm this from a few more sources...... because I too will not cut up my car....

[crkoester]

Originally Posted by 67GTONUT

If your bodymounts are fresh, and the car was a 4 speed to begin with, the tunnel just needs to be tweaked to fit the 5 speed.
All auto cars need to be cut to fit a 5 speed.....

Huh? You seem to be suggesting that the trans tunnel itself is somehow inherently different between 4-spd and auto cars? This would be news to me...

I have also looked into a Tremec TKO conversion for a 69 GTO, and it is my understanding that the trans tunnel has to be cut, regardless.

http://www.classicchevy5speed.com/Ch...tallation.aspx



Chris

[69goatboy]

Originally Posted by crkoester

Huh? You seem to be suggesting that the trans tunnel itself is somehow inherently different between 4-spd and auto cars? This would be news to me...

In a sense you are right, the tunnel itself is the same, but a factory 4-speed car would have the shifter "porch" welded to the floorpan and the area underneath said porch removed for clearance of the shifter.

Our host calls it a Shift Tunnel (P/N RPI660C), for $40

[67GTONUT]

one shop told me that if he needs to cut the tunnel.... he will just slice one side and expand it an inch for clearance.... but he said thats all he might need to do.

[carsmymistress]

I installed a TKO 600 in my 69 last fall. It is an original 4 speed car. The car has new body mounts, but I still had to cut the tunnel to make sure the the drive line angle remained correct. The only change with a factory 4 speed car is a hole cut for a shifter chimney which does not create any additional room for the TKO.
I am very satisfied with the result and from inside the car, you cannot tell the tunnel has been modified. Having done this once now, I would buy the kit from Classic Chevy 5 speed or Keisler. I hand formed the tunnel from 16 ga steel, but the template and replacement plates offered by these vendors would have saved significant time.

Good luck on the project if you decide to go through with it.

Kerry

[John767]

I'm in the process of converting my 69 conv auto to the Tremec 5 speed. I have not started the tunnel surgery yet.

If you go with the Keisler kit, and if the car was an automatic, you need a new "shifter hump" or "shifter porch" to be installed on the tunnel in addition to cutting the tunnel. You can buy the tunnel hump from PY, Ames or Year One. The Classic Chevy tunnel patch seems to leave it up to you as to where you want the shifter to come trough the floor. i.e. off-set stock position or straight back.

Kiesler claims they need the least tunnel modification with their kit. We'll see. Classic Chevy has a good reputation and claims to keep the cuts minimal as well.

I'll try to get some pictures to you when I start the process.

-John

[GTO JOHN]

I've got a Richmond 5spd installed in my 69 GTO 4spd car. No tunnel mods.

[gto4evr]

Originally Posted by 69goatboy

In a sense you are right, the tunnel itself is the same, but a factory 4-speed car would have the shifter "porch" welded to the floorpan and the area underneath said porch removed for clearance of the shifter.

Our host calls it a Shift Tunnel (P/N RPI660C), for $40

Porches were never welded to the floor, they are screwed in with a rope seal to weather proof it.

[69Customs]

I couldn't afford a 5 speed tremec or richmond so I put in a poor mans tremec 3+1 overdrive toploader ( Dearborn) It sets in on a 7 degree angle just like the original 3 speed dearborn. No tunnel mods required. Did have to make shifter mtg brkt. on a reverse 7 degree to put the shifter straight up, Shorten driveshaft 3 inches and make bronze pilot bearing. but all in all turned out quite nice. Looks like original Hurst shifter 4 speed except with .81 overdrive.

[_CHIEF]

69Customs, that certainly sounds like an option but do you know what kind of power that transmission can take? I am considering the TKO-600 because the power of the 541 would rip apart the Muncie that is in there now and I do not want to go with an automatic transmission.

[bruno17]

Originally Posted by GTO JOHN

I've got a Richmond 5spd installed in my 69 GTO 4spd car. No tunnel mods.

Hey John, Can you elaborate some more on your combo? I was thinking of buying the same trans for my car. I've used the TKO 5 spd but prefer the feel of the Richmond trans. I've got a 6spd in an Fbody now

[69Customs]

I was told by a transmission rebuilder that its the condition of a transmission that determines the torque it can handle more than what it is rated at. I then told him that some people don't consider that a racing transmission and his response to me was "Whats a racing transmission? I don't consider any transmission avaliable in a street car a racing transmission! Any of them can be torn up with abuse!"
He then told me that as long as I wasn't doing a bunch of burn-outs that it would hold up. They put them in trucks! and we all know the abuse people put on trucks and the overloads.
So no I don't think it would take many 5000 rpm and dumping the clutch. But I don't know if TKO 600 would either. Depending on tires and how they hooked up, etc. But for street use it been fine for me. And at the cost I have plenty of spare transmissions.

[Curly Joe]

I also was looking at the 6 speed keisler..but...must cut the floor....nope no way. Instead will be using a doug nash 5 speed. first 4 gears are steep so must change rear gear from 3.55 to 3.08 or less... then can cruise at 80 mph,plus have some fun. Bolts right in with no mods , shifter in stock location. Now in the hunt for a decent clutch.

[tom s]

I ran my TKO500 with 6000 rpm launches with 10in M/T slicks.Broke the posis but never hurt the trans.Went to the 600 for insurance.By the way they shift WAY better than a Richmond 5 speed or 6 speed.Getting ready to build a 69 RA V firebird and it will have a Tremic TKO in it for sure.Tom

[69Customs]

Wow,
Thats impressive tom s. What first gear did that TKO500 have in it and what gear did you have in the rear?

[tom s]

I had the 3.27 first with a 4.56 in the rear,one reason I went to the 600 was the taller first gear for more pull through that gear.REALLY not sure it was worth the change.I will get the 500 for the firebird.Tom

[69Customs]

Wow,
I always thought they had to switch out first to the stronger 2.95 first gear to get that much torque thru it?
I'am running 3.29 first with 2.80 rear shifting at 40 mph, you must just be off the line when its time to shift. What speed did you shift 1-2 and what rpms at?

[tom s]

I shifted at 6000,so it was almost as soon as I droped the clutch.Tom