[STALLION]

John, I am NOT a KRE spokesperson at all. These are my comments and I have a right to comment. If you knew the COWARDS that I am talking about you would not be saying grow up. It is you right to disagree with my post, just like I can disagree with yours. Totally disagree!!! This is why we have these forums to agree or disagree, I think. Maurice.

[johnta1]

I knew as soon as I left for work that I forgot to divide by 2. That's what I get for being in a hurry.

Anyway,
Cylinders
1-.149 + .102 = .251"
3-.154 + .102 = .256"
5-.137 + .102 = .239"
7-.087 + .102 = .189"

I thought you were to get .250" (or whatever it was) at the cast bore size.
If you wanted a 4.375" bore, they cast the block at that bore size with the .250" wall?

So if I had an IA II block with a 4.170" bore I can bore it to 4.375" and still have .250" or more?


The Brinell stuff, I'm not touching.
I'm not convinced it would be a problem.

[johnsma22]

The reason I said that you need to grow up Maurice is because it should be beneath you to be soliciting fights on the internet because you don't like what people have to say. You stated that whenever you see people bashing KRE that you will come to their defense. What I'm saying is that it is unlikely that they would be appreciative of someone threatening violence against people in the course of you defending them.

I don't know you and have no malice toward you at all. You're probably a good guy. You have every right to your opinion, but just don't be surprised when others are of an opposite opinion and feel just as strongly about it. Like I said, just because someone isn't DIRECTLY involved, doesn't disqualify them from having an opinion.

I suspect that it will be those who have never had any dealings with them deciding not to deal with them, based on what they've read here and elsewhere, that will have the greatest impact on KRE's future. As I also stated, even if they win, they lose.

[STALLION]

Pontirag, all us Pontiac guys and gals are very fortunate to have all the vender's selling after market parts, I applaud them all. I am sticking up for the Kauffman's because I know them. I am not calling you or any other members on this thread a coward just Debonerhead and scumbag friends. You should read all the posts in this thread throughly and understand them before you post. I did not fight with Brian Baker but I did use the word fight. You should chill. When you know the type of person Debonerhead is than comment on him. You want to know more PM me.

[STALLION]

John not at all threating to anyone talking about the Kauffmans, not at all. John, we all lose. Pm me if you want the story. Thanks Maurice.

[440GP69]

[QUOTE=johnta1] I knew as soon as I left for work that I forgot to divide by 2. That's what I get for being in a hurry.

Anyway,
Cylinders
1-.149 + .102 = .251"
3-.154 + .102 = .256"
5-.137 + .102 = .239"
7-.087 + .102 = .189"

I thought you were to get .250" (or whatever it was) at the cast bore size.
If you wanted a 4.375" bore, they cast the block at that bore size with the .250" wall?

So if I had an IA II block with a 4.170" bore I can bore it to 4.375" and still have .250" or more?


The Brinell stuff, I'm not touching.
I'm not convinced it would be a problem.

they advertised .250 or more at 4.375 not as cast bore size

[Pontirag]

We loose weather KRE leaves the market or weather they are there selling what may yet to be determined is a bad product. The community looses either way. BUT we loose less if they leave the market and we still have money in our pocket to buy the engine block we want. The market remains open for another competator to enter the market and produce a comparable block to the IAII. That market will not exist if the customer looses their money. Any body can make a mistake. but it takes a moral and ethical business person to correct a wrong. . Furthermore it might be worse than expected if a court finds in favor of the victim. And thats why we have courts, so the facts and the truth can come out. No threats of violence against others who are just expressing their opinion.

I'm not certain that this is not heading in the direction it is for any more reason than the purpose of trying to get the moderators to delete or edit the few facts expessed amonst all the high emotions. I am certain that it will come to that and once again PY will suffer for the censorship. It will erode the credability of this forum, More so than ever before. and finally the money spent on defective engine parts or customer service will not be spent supporting some other part of the hobby...more effectively.

threats against people on this forum.

Havent the moderators already discovered, at the expense of their own credability and at the expense of PY that it serves no one. your not helping anyone by hurting anyone.

[STALLION]

I don't think Kauffman's is going anywhere, to most of us they are good people and most of us using this forum are good people. I do believe business is doing well. What is going on between them and Scott is not good for anyone but once the ball starts rolling down the hill and it picks up a lot of speed it's hard to stop it. AND Pontirag you are right I did let my emotions get the best of me and I do apologize to the board members but for sure not DD, SW, and friends. So I guess that means we can start bashing again. Have to go to work see you guys later tonight, working on car tonight. Again sorry to PY members. Thanks Maurice.

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by STALLION

Scott, Brian, my mistake I thought you guys were friends, partners in Brains car, SORRY! Brian I mean you and guys like you that have not had any personal or business dealings with the Kauffman's should not comment on them or their business practices. I think I can comment on them because of my personal and business dealings with them. I think I can comment on their customer service record and you guys should not. Brian we were fighting about this type of thread last year around this time, I invited you and that (lady) you were scrapping with to come to my trailer at the 07 Norwalk race, I did not see either one of you. I did bring the mistletoe for you two. Brian this is the RACE Forum, not the Customer Satisfaction Forum, or Business Entities Exchange Forum!!! Skip, you have had dealings with the Kauffman's, your not happy you have the right to complain. I don't know what you mean by getting to deep into it. As long as you guys keep on bashing the Kauffman's I well continue defending them!!! I have before and still deal with the Kauffman's. Again, as for a tough guy behind the computer I really am when it comes the COWARDS David Debonerhead and Steven Wilson. They are also invited to my trailer,when ever they are willing to fight a man NOT a CHILD come on bye and bring your scumbag friends that hang around with you guys after knowing what you did. I will not need a bat or pepper spray like you needed, right TOUGH guy Steven Wilson Or what ever your real name is!!!!

Apology accepted.

Couldn't make Norwalk last year as I was still recuperating from back surgery. I really wanted to though, as I wanted to bring my Can Am to participate in the 30th anniversary recognition, but my body was just not physically up to the 850 mile round trip at that time.

I don't know why you are so upset with me personally specifically concerning this thread. I did not start it. I have not mentioned any person(s) by name (other than Scott Roberts in reply to your comments), any company/business name, or any product names sold by any company/business. I see comments/questions pertaining to a court case, warranties, metalurgy, etc. and have replied to those comments. You say "this is not the customer satisfaction forum or business entities exchange forum"...where have I made any comments in this thread pertaining to customer satisfaction, customer service, or about any businesses? THE ONLY ONE MENTIONING NAMES IS YOU. Furthermore, the discussions in this thread have been civil and objective, UNTIL YOU PARTICIPATED.

As I stated in a previous post, the court case is public information, and as such is "free game" to discuss openly. Additionally, not you or anyone is going to tell me what I can discuss or where. If you don't like the discussion, you're free to ignore it...or not.

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by johnta1

I knew as soon as I left for work that I forgot to divide by 2. That's what I get for being in a hurry.

Anyway,
Cylinders
1-.149 + .102 = .251"
3-.154 + .102 = .256"
5-.137 + .102 = .239"
7-.087 + .102 = .189"

I thought you were to get .250" (or whatever it was) at the cast bore size.
If you wanted a 4.375" bore, they cast the block at that bore size with the .250" wall?

So if I had an IA II block with a 4.170" bore I can bore it to 4.375" and still have .250" or more?


The Brinell stuff, I'm not touching.
I'm not convinced it would be a problem.

John, regarding the cylinder wall thickness, when it is advertised as .250" with a bore of 4.375", that means that cylinder wall is .250" thick around its entire circumference, not one side added to the other side to arrive at a sum. See post #4 in the following link for the word straight from the source:

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=451173

As a point of reference, my IA-2 was ordered with a 4.180 bore, and the wall thickness on each bore was greater than .400", with the biggest number being .430".

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by STALLION

I don't think Kauffman's is going anywhere, to most of us they are good people and most of us using this forum are good people. I do believe business is doing well. What is going on between them and Scott is not good for anyone but once the ball starts rolling down the hill and it picks up a lot of speed it's hard to stop it. AND Pontirag you are right I did let my emotions get the best of me and I do apologize to the board members but for sure not DD, SW, and friends. So I guess that means we can start bashing again. Have to go to work see you guys later tonight, working on car tonight. Again sorry to PY members. Thanks Maurice.

I don't think anyone here wants or expects them to go out of buisness. I only had a problem with my block. I have said in many posts (can get them if needed) that they have great heads and are on the forfront of Pontiac power. Thats an undeniable fact. Its funny to think that I am so powerful I could put Kre out of buisness!!!!!! Thats not my intent or was it ever my intent. I wanted people to know my issues. Guess its a good thing I did, otherwise the Spidels may have never found their bloken blocks until it was to late.
As far as stoping the ball. Thats easy to do. I would be the first one to step up and defend them if things were handled different. Egos and anger are out of control on both sides!
Maurice, Its very brass of you to man up and appologize. I understand your loyalty and its commended. Don't take things so personal. Your right that its a shame things have gotten to this point for the hobbey. Are you comming to VMP? I will be there (carless). If not I will stop by and see you at Norwalk for some friendly conversation. I should actually have a car ready for that race.
John, Yes my IA2 has well over .250 (on both sides )at 4.350 bore. My MR-1 was suppose to aswell, but it didn't. I see you aren't going to answer my question about my complaints and thats fine. I supose we will sort that out in court. First we have to decide where that will be. The truth is the best defense which is why i'm not concerened about arguing the merits of the case. Just don't care to do it in Ohio.
Scott Roberts

[Skip Fix]

Chris as I stated and Tom stated on block strength it is not just the cast iron but the entire design that helps make it stong,which you seem to be alluding to. All the redundancy in strength is no good if the materials are too soft. You can not dismiss the other design things that make some blocks stronger,be they Pontiac or Chevy/Ford. If you don't think so put some Grade 3 hardware store bolts in your Eagle rods and spin it to 7000. Still a good rod but the soft bolts are going to let it fail, so who cares if the rods are made of good material. It's the whole package that allows you to make good HP.

Maurice, first you ask if it's my real name then why I have any reason to even comment in this area of MR 1 block issues-I had an MR1 and that's all I can say about that at this time,read the links-why would I think not to get offended. If you've read other posts I've made I don't want KRE to disappear from the market. I've even said in relation to this block on hardness I don;t think it was KRE's intent eitherAs I said I "thought" I was a valued customer and have spent a fair amount of money with them over the years. I do think they have some products like their heads that are good and have said so here many times. When someone has a problem with a business's product or service most "good folks" take in the input , try to resolve that issue and if it is a recurrent issue correct the whole process,at least I do in my business. Not go on the attack that other non related things caused the problems.

Maurice and John you like the Kaufmans OK please answer the $1million dollar question no one will!!Not one of the KRE supporters has still adressed the initial question that brought this whole thing up- block advertised as specific hardness-multiple blocks don't spec out. Block advertised as specific thickness on a 4.350 bore -don't spec out. This block's cam tunnel didn't spec out. How does hot tanking(I assume was done) final honing at an even smaller bore) change any of those specs???? ANY machinist/engineer wil tell you it won't!!! So after telling your customer to go jump they did the impossible you expect him to not have a right complain publicly?

[Overkillphil]

[QUOTE=Brian Baker]"...not even as high as that of an OEM passenger car block, what have you got? Butter."

Brian, more like the structural equivelant of a manhole cover.



Tom, as an engineer you know that volume plays a huge part in the cost of those blocks. Chevy stuff is always cheaper to buy.

[Chris Roach]

Originally Posted by Skip Fix

Chris as I stated and Tom stated on block strength it is not just the cast iron but the entire design that helps make it stong,which you seem to be alluding to. All the redundancy in strength is no good if the materials are too soft. You can not dismiss the other design things that make some blocks stronger,be they Pontiac or Chevy/Ford. If you don't think so put some Grade 3 hardware store bolts in your Eagle rods and spin it to 7000. Still a good rod but the soft bolts are going to let it fail, so who cares if the rods are made of good material. It's the whole package that allows you to make good HP.

Your comparison on the grade 3 bolts in rods is not a good one. Call the bolt manufacturer and they will tell you at what point that bolt will fail. It’s a proven and documented fact.
Call any aftermarket block manufacture and ask them at what performance level their block will fail? I’m guessing you won’t get much of an answer. Which is the point I'm trying to get accross.

All points in this discussion have been good points, but still no proven facts on when a block will fail, based on what we discussed.

We all know now that we’d prefer a block with a harder brinell. But, prior to the whole MR1 deal, how many even knew what brinell was or even took into consideration the actual hardness of a block. Not many I’m sure.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by Overkillphil

Tom, as an engineer you know that volume plays a huge part in the cost of those blocks. Chevy stuff is always cheaper to buy.

Question: Not relating to anything specific and checking the marketplace, but............. Would you pay $2600 plus shipping for a recast Pontiac block with no advantage over a factory production block?

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by Chris Roach

Your comparison on the grade 3 bolts in rods is not a good one. Call the bolt manufacturer and they will tell you at what point that bolt will fail. It’s a proven and documented fact.
Call any aftermarket block manufacture and ask them at what performance level their block will fail? I’m guessing you won’t get much of an answer. Which is the point I'm trying to get accross.

All points in this discussion have been good points, but still no proven facts on when a block will fail, based on what we discussed.

We all know now that we’d prefer a block with a harder brinell. But, prior to the whole MR1 deal, how many even knew what brinell was or even took into consideration the actual hardness of a block. Not many I’m sure.

I think the whole point of 'this post' is that (And correct me if I'm wrong)

#1: The case is going to be tried in Ohio not Virginia. Which is what was contested and tried to be thrown out?
#2: That the block received was delivered to a customer below standards advertised at that time claimed by the consumer?
#3: That work done after receiving the block never affected the integrity of the block as claimed by the other party?
#4: That at the time all consumer wanted was the block replaced or refunded because block did not meet standards posted by the seller?
#5: Seller claims in court documents that work done affected the initial integrity of the block and all claims are null and void?

Any of this wrong?

[Region Warrior]

To you guys that try and twist the facts.
It may work on some people.
But not any with common sence.

And if you dont like others posting facts to possibly save someone from being hurt or killed, to bad.
Just last week a "possible" bad block was sold cheap.
So we're gona keep it up till all are scraped or replaced.

[johnta1]

This is from the court records:

We find
Roberts’ act of posting messages on various Internet sites was “committed with the
purpose of injuring” Kauffman Racing, and such purpose is clearly seen in the content

of Roberts’ postings.

[Brian Baker]

Chris, I think the analogy Skip was trying to convey with the rod/rod-bolt scenario is that the unit is only as strong as the weakest link. You can have a forged rod, manufactured from the strongest steel with no impurities, but if you use an inferior fastener, all of the effort you put into the rod is for naught. Same goes with an engine block. You can have an excellent design for the intended HP level that's 3 times (or greater) than what the OEM block was ever designed for, but if you use an inferior material to cast it with, it's all for naught.

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by johnta1

This is from the court records:

I think before you can play a Lawyer John you still need to work on your math. You will find that the "Effects" can't be the only deciding factor in Jurisdiction. There must also be "minimum contact" with the state. The original judge sided with me as well as 1 of the other 3. Follow me close here John, Thats 2 for and 2 against. That would be a 50/50 split. As I said before, I don't give up so easy.
What is your purpose of the quotes anyway?? Also are you ever going to answer my questions.