[Steve C.]

I can't edit, so I want to apologise for the word idiot. Sorry I got carried away.

[Tom Vaught]

Steve, I leave you with this thought concerning your friend John Dinkel

"People who spread manure fear people with knowledge"

I hope you are doing well.

Tom V.

[Skip Fix]

"here in any of my posts am I defending anyone. I’M NOT!!!!!. I’ve got some questions based on cast iron composition vs. performance levels. FOR ANY BLOCK, be it IA2, MRI, OEM PONTIAC, FORD, MOPAR etc. etc. I’ve got my own conclusion, but figured it would be interesting on what others had to say, as it has."-OK Chris I'll go for that. As I said I think too much variability,we've all heard fo "Friday Afternoon cars" also-fact or fiction.Shoot look at the HP those little aluminum LS-1/2 blocks are pushing now, and that's softer aluminum. The Society of Automotive Engineers at the OEs probably have some high $$$ computer modeling program to help.Those darn engineers(my son included) have all kinds of modeling programs for stuff,even where to put what part of a factory depending on the variables.

JC(and John to some extent) the whole deal is BOTH parties have to agree there is an issue to even try and resolve it. If there had been agreement things wouldn't have been down the road they are and recalls would have been for everyone,including these first blocks-and that's all that was asked I believe. If I sold you 8' of chrome moly for your roll cage but you only got 6' from me. Three other guys measured it at only 6' but I told you nope it's really is 8' you all are wrong-we're not going to resolve it. And you might then even wonder if I really sold you chrome moly or mild steel and buy an Alston cage

I think Steve described the acceptance of one of the issues and how it would be resolved."weld it up and re-machine or fabricate a custom spacer"-neither suggested from the manufacturer to be done.

I guess we don't expect wheels to "bolt on" and fit good either if they are "race" wheels.Precision machining is still precision machining be it a block or a wheel they aren't "file to fit" like rings are.

[punisher#1]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Steve, I leave you with this thought concerning your friend John Dinkel

"People who spread manure fear people with knowledge"

I hope you are doing well.

Tom V.

thanks tom

[Ron H]

I have tried to stay out of this but can't. I have to say it is very disappointing that anyone who purchased a faulty block was not fixed up. If Scott is the only one, why not? Everyone gets angered and has the ability to fly off the handle and go to far. Who can say they never have?
We are a small community and it should be well taken care of. Unfortunately this issue still continues and it doesn't look like it will end without getting worse.

Regardless of the circumstances it can still be dealt with reasonably.

They should drop the lawsuit and make whole for the defective block. What's it worth to continue?

I've been called every name in the book, and I have deserved it and I have not. Big deal, no real damage. Sticks and stones, blah,blah.

Obviously they have a successful business, why not make it better?

[Chris Roach]

Skip, here's more food for thought!

An aluminum DRCE block is made from 356-T6 aluminum. 356-T6 aluminum typically has a brinell hardess of 70-80!

[Skip Fix]

Bet there's more gussets than an iron equivalent

"They should drop the lawsuit and make whole for the defective block. What's it worth to continue? " I GUARANTEE the legal fees are more than a replacement block from anyone! Even a darn aluminum one!

[Ron H]

There is no gain from any stand point. Except maybe, any advertising is good advertising even if it's bad?

[Jack Gifford]

Originally Posted by Ron H

... Obviously they have a successful business, why not make it better?

As a "spectator" who is not acquainted with any of the parties, that is the most puzzling question in my mind.

[TTS]

Originally Posted by Chris Roach

Skip, here's more food for thought!

An aluminum DRCE block is made from 356-T6 aluminum. 356-T6 aluminum typically has a brinell hardess of 70-80!

It's got steel cylinder sleeves and thread inserts too.

[Pontirag]

So polar pontiac, when you say you will buy a engine block from Kaufmans does that mean that you would be willing to buy one of the defective blocks held by other and made by Kaufmans. Same block same quality. You by one made by them or just by one from them. Either put your foot or your money where your mouth is.

[440GP69]

isn't aluminum hardness checked different than iron?

[Chris Roach]

Originally Posted by Skip Fix

Bet there's more gussets than an iron equivalent

As in the IA2 or MR1 compared to OEM.

Originally Posted by TTS

It's got steel cylinder sleeves and thread inserts too.

What keeps the inserts from pulling out? What about core shift problems?

Originally Posted by 440GP69

isn't aluminum hardness checked different than iron?

A brinell check is a brinell check (I think). The only thing I'm not sure is if they use the same amount of force on the ball to leave the impint.

[Brian Baker]

Testing aluminum is different than testing iron/steel:

http://www.instron.us/wa/application...gle.com/search

Because the test parameters are different for each metal, for instance, a Brinell reading of say, 100 on a cast iron piece, is not the same as a Brinell of 100 on a cast aluminum piece.

[Polar-Pontiac]

Originally Posted by Pontirag

So polar pontiac, when you say you will buy a engine block from Kaufmans does that mean that you would be willing to buy one of the defective blocks held by other and made by Kaufmans. Same block same quality. You by one made by them or just by one from them. Either put your foot or your money where your mouth is.

I would buy a MR1 block from them one that fits my needs.My foot I would plant in your ass.

[BILL BOWMAN1]

Originally Posted by Polar-Pontiac

I would buy a MR1 block from them one that fits my needs.My foot I would plant in your ass.

You really didn't answer the question. Would you buy one of the old defective blocks?

[Skip Fix]

Chris I wonder why aluminum rockers have a larger body that steel ones?? Maybe check the Brinell on them

Not an aluminum block expert but I believe most have thicker webbings and walls than their steel counterparts. Sleeve holes machined after casting and thicker walls the casting shift not as big a deal as pistons not riding on the actual wall(unless you count the old silicon impregnated Vega motors or original 430 Can Am blocks-remember those,or you guys too young?). If it were just that easy as casting the same cores in aluminum I'd bet the Pontiac one Butler has would have been out alot earlier. I know the aluminum 409 block a guy is working on is alot bulkier, he has the first batch cast last month.

Polar- "I got 8' of chrome moly you can buy too, or was that 6'". Seriously I hope the new ones don't have issues for anyone, but I doubt there would have been a recall if even they thought there wasn't that possibility, but I'd bet you could get an old one for a deal!

[pont406]

Originally Posted by Chris Roach

Sure, I've seen an aluminum head with an o-ring leave quite a nice imprint in a cast iron block without a receiver groove. Also, just about every block I've taken apart has had a pretty nice witness mark from the head and gasket on the deck surface.

I've also seen a block drastically heave up around a stud on a BBC aftermarket block.

I should have mentioned that it was a Cometic Gasket, no O rings. indented imprint was on the block BUT not on the Aluminum heads. could never get the heads to seal for more than 2 or 3 passes, new block by another MFG hasn't had this issue and stayed sealed with 20+ passes with everything else the same

[TTS]

Originally Posted by Chris Roach

What keeps the inserts from pulling out? What about core shift problems?

The inserts are in a larger bore = more surface area. I'm willing to bet the DRCE has a much thicker deck as well.

Core shift is a casting/machining problem, not a material problem.


There's a difference in tensile strength and hardness. The deck will imprint if the deck isn't hard enough- tensile is a different deal.

[Polar-Pontiac]

Originally Posted by BILL BOWMAN1

You really didn't answer the question. Would you buy one of the old defective blocks?

I tried too but was refused.yes I would.