[Skip Fix]

Maybe the fact they wouldn't sell them should make a point guys!!

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by Skip Fix

Maybe the fact they wouldn't sell them should make a point guys!!

Not sure Skip but I believe he was talking about mine. I decided not to sell it due to the liability and case.
Polar, Don't get so mad. Tom vaught tried to get everyone to drop it 2 pages ago and its still going and getting nasty. I guess like Tom said, lets drop it and let the lawyers figure it out.

[punisher#1]

Originally Posted by Polar-Pontiac

I tried too but was refused.yes I would.

i nominate this guy for the first annual KRE "LEMMING OF THE YEAR" award.

[fastgto]

Originally Posted by punisher#1

i nominate this guy for the first annual KRE "LEMMING OF THE YEAR" award.

If you want to make some really big money, get a hold of me, I`m selling property
on the moon cheap, only $ 500 per acre.

[Polar-Pontiac]

Originally Posted by punisher#1

i nominate this guy for the first annual KRE "LEMMING OF THE YEAR" award.

Maybe you could present the award to me smart a$$.

[Tom Vaught]

Quote:

"Polar, Don't get so mad. Tom vaught tried to get everyone to drop it 2 pages ago and its still going and getting nasty. I guess like Tom said, lets drop it and let the lawyers figure it out."

I see we are still calling each other names while KRE and DI sit back and watch people humor themselves with idle threats over the computers.

Aluminum vs Steel.

Quoting one number reminds me of the old days when I was just out of high school, really stupid, and figured my Pontiac boys with their 428 engines were better than the 427 Chebby and 427 Ford guys with their engines due to that one MAGIC CUBIC INCH. One little number does not tell the whole story, by any means.

Tom V.

[Chris Roach]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Quote:
Aluminum vs Steel.

Quoting one number reminds me of the old days when I was just out of high school, really stupid, and figured my Pontiac boys with their 428 engines were better than the 427 Chebby and 427 Ford guys with their engines due to that one MAGIC CUBIC INCH. One little number does not tell the whole story, by any means.

Tom V.

I certainly hope you aren't insinuating that I am stupid by referring to the brinell hardness of an aluminum DRCE block.

[speedshopmike]

Originally Posted by Chris Roach

I question a persons engine building capablites when they come on a public forum and claim manufacture defect, then come back later and admit fault to that defect.

Sorry guys, I call them as I see them, just as you!

I have no beef with the Spidels and my comment may have come across harsh, but,

I question how they are torquing things based facts brought forth on this forum.

1. The raised deck surface around the studs!
2. A bent main cap!

To the Spidels,

I appologize if my comment came across as harsh.

only a drooling idiot would assemble many thousands of dollars of components without properly torquing fasteners.
i don't think the spidels qualify as such.
the raised material appears to have done so due to being soft, which appears to be the major point of the issue and this thread.
if one can't apply proper torque values to seal a component, how is it supposed to function?
i have no side chosen as right or wrong in this issue as i'm not privy to all the FACTS, but customer service and honoring a commitment made to a customer as to a part being what is advertised to be is critical for any business, automotive or otherwise.
as a parts vendor myself, i choose whose parts i sell - and have dropped several heavy-hitter manufacturers over the years due to bad service - i could continue to sell their stuff and make nice profit margins - but i won't because they don't do what i expect of a company selling high end parts - in a couple cases, the parts were fine - just bad service.
in others, parts were bad but service was acceptable - still short some cards from the deck for my standards.
it's called integrity, and is what my shop is known for, as are many others.
this hurts my bottom financial line as it results in lost sales for me - but it's the RIGHT THING TO DO.

[Tom Vaught]

Quote:

"I certainly hope you aren't insinuating that I am stupid by referring to the brinell hardness of an aluminum DRCE block."

My quote:

"I was just out of high school, really stupid"

Where did I say ANYTHING about you?

I made a GENERAL comment that people with a little information can be dangerous using myself as the example (in high school).

Tom V.

[Ron]

Butter never wins.....it gets eaten.

[Tom Vaught]

Agree Ron, you don't have to be a Rocket Scientist to have enough common sense to know that Butter and Aluminum are softer than "Most" cast iron and steel. Apparently there are exceptions.

Tom V.

[Chris Roach]

Well, since I'm the only one who brought up aluminum, its apparent you are referring to me.
Sorry my questions don't stack up to your technical expertise.

My father, who was a very successful business owner told me once. "The only stupid question is the question that was never asked"

Have a nice day!

[455Dave]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Agree Ron, you don't have to be a Rocket Scientist to have enough common sense to know that Butter and Aluminum are softer than "Most" cast iron and steel. Apparently there are exceptions.

Tom V.

Tom, I really hate metallurgy because it's so complex I won't teach it any more because I lose my students in about the first 15 minutes. Instead of posting up a bunch of empirical data I thought this time I would just post a short section from the the Atlas Foundry site:

"A conversion chart between Rockwell and Brinell hardness values can be used accurately for steel but deviations from this relation for steel occur with gray irons. This deviation increases with high carbon equivalent irons. The amount of flake graphite present influences the two tests differently. This is evident from a comparison of microhardness test results on the matrix of gray irons compared to standard Rockwell C values on the same irons. The microhardness impressions do not include the graphite flakes that are present under the Rockwell C hardness indenter."


"For this reason the hardness of gray iron should NOT (my emphasis) be compared directly to the hardness of other metals for an indication of properties such as machinability or wear resistance. However, some effective hardness conversions can be made between selective types of hardnesses."

An M16 or AR15 is made of 6061-T6 aluminum, over 10,000 rounds in my 10.5" shorty and it functions fine but it Brinell tests at 80.

Lot's of interesting stuff here:

http://www.atlasfdry.com/grayiron-hardness.htm

The bottom line never changes, Crappy QA = crappy product

[Skip Fix]

There you go Chris good site. Now let's see what kind of cast iron did those blocks test out as and what were they advertised as?? "Soft","Ordinary" or "Higher Strength" Seems like the 30,000-35,000 number was thrown around.

http://www.atlasfdry.com/grayiron-hardness.htm

http://www.atlasfdry.com/grayiron-classes.htm

But Dave my AR's recievers just have a bolt carrier sliding in them not pullling on them like cranks in mains do or keeping heads from lifting like decks are supposed to do. It does look though that you can use the Brinell to extrapolate which tensile strength iron is there.

[Half-Inch Stud]

No worry. The thoroughly developed materials characteristics, from U.S.A. materials development & testing of old, will be carried-on with the Chinese folks. Industrious bunch they are.

Us U.S.A. folks may want to start/maintain boutique businesses by making products that rely on smelting/making nice steel, aluminum, titanium, mag-thorium, and hey aluminum-beryllium metal.

Make vs Buy is the key to long-term growth.
Make vs Buy is a terrible way to short your company.

[Tom Vaught]

455DAVE, Yes, the Atlas Site is an excellent site for info on materials and their properties.

Quote:

"An M16 or AR15 is made of 6061-T6 aluminum, over 10,000 rounds in my 10.5" shorty and it functions fine but it Brinell tests at 80."

Agree that you have done this but AGAIN (as Skip mentioned above), IT DEPENDS ON THE APPLICATION OF THE MATERIAL and the stresses. You better know what the stresses are before you design a firearm or you will have an appointment with a Plastic Surgeon. Same deal with an engine block. ASSUMING that it is JUST a piece of cast iron with holes without any KNOWLEGE of the engineering behind the design typically leads to less than perfect results.

Chris R. 455DAVE has aluminum in his post too. Just because you had aluminum in your post and I had aluminum in my post does not mean I was SPECIFICALLY targeting your comment.

Tom V.

[Brian Baker]

[455Dave]

Skip and Tom get gold stars and free beer if we ever meet up.

[Chris Roach]

Tom, its all in fun!
Sometimes the arrogance level in these forums seems way to high and what is conveyed may com across a bit snide. I'm sure if we all had this conversation in person, we'd all conclude with laughter and hand shakes.

Skip, I already read those and they are very informative sites.

I must say, I've learned quite a bit about block composition since all this began.

455 Dave,
Since I didn't win a beer with any of my posts. I'm off to go get my own!

[Tom Vaught]

I come back to this information from Atlas:

"Factors Affecting Strength"

The mechanical properties of gray iron are determined by the COMBINED EFFECT of its CHEMICAL COMPOSITION, PROCESSING TECHNIQUE in the foundry, and the SOLIDIFICATION and COOLING RATES. Thus, the mechanical properties of the metal in a casting will depend on its shape, size and wall thickness as well as on the iron that is used to pour it.

I don't think the Kauffmans personally had any control of the above
"highlited" parameters. The Foundry did.

BUT acconding to John Wallace, it doesn't matter because according to his rational FORD supposedly was responsible for the Firestone Tire screw-up, therefore the Kauffman's are responsible for the Foundry Block Casting screw-up.

Personally, I disagree with him on both counts.

John, you can't blame Ford for the FS deal without blaming KRE for the block deal.

This only issue I see with the KRE deal is how the customer service part of the deal was implemented, but I don't run their company.

Tom V.