[Armadillo]

This is why I went to a solid roller. Axle failled on the roller. Why? Nobody could tell me.

[krisr]

I'm still running Crower 68405 springs (looking to replace with 26995 beehives) in my 400 with an XR288HR hyd roller + comp hyd roller lifters. Took it for a 10mile drive last night to make use of the cold ambient air we're having now and visited the shiftlight (5800rpm) a fair few times... RPM issues? None seen yet. I've put about 500km's on my cam/lifters so far and the springs are about 2500km's old - no noise issues either

[Armadillo]

Had the same cam. Same lifters. Comp did cut me a deal on the new solid rollers. Congrats to PD, glad he was able to do it. What I am saying is mine failed. 6400 rpm once in a great while. From what I can piece together, you should not go over 6000 rpm on them.

Tom

[Jack Gifford]

Originally Posted by Armadillo

... From what I can piece together, you should not go over 6000 rpm on them...

Pdude! Listen up! Quit spinning that thing to 6,800!

[Armadillo]

Jack,

I do not think he is using Comps r lifters. He has his tuned with a Pdude formula and is working fine for him. So be it.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by Armadillo

This is why I went to a solid roller. Axle failled on the roller. Why? Nobody could tell me.

I have seen solid roller lifters fail also, so that deal doesn't wash. Had one go right thru the valley under the bore in a BBC. Nice round hole. Junk the block. Lot of racers making power have solid lifter issues all the time.

So if a solid lifter fails with ya, then what? Oh Oh I know. O.H.C.


Sh*t happens, no man made product is 100%.

[Motor Daddy]

I agree, stuff does happen. The question is at what extremes does it happen, and how "durable" is the item under extreme conditions.

Dude, you're leaving over 150 HP on the table. Do you think a hydraulic roller is capable of making that additional 150 HP? If not, what type of cam and lifter would you suggest to reach the 800 HP potential of the heads, speaking as a racer and not as an engine builder/businessman?

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by pontiac jack

Pdude! Listen up! Quit spinning that thing to 6,800!

Bwahahahahahahaha. Don't want to........ but I just give it what it wants. Yes I am using Comp Cams hydraulic roller lifters. Beehive springs. H.S. rockers

I shift it at 6500 with the CV-1's.

I am expecting to go faster with the re-worked intake so I'm pulling the 4.10's out and putting in my old 3.90's.

I don't know off hand but I think I have over 50 or so hyd roller engines out there, just in Pontiacs. I do know there are 14 IA 2 hyd roller combos floating around. From 525 to 625hp.

Back when I first starting messing with them in my 535 I was buzzing the ole engine 7000 and running 10.50's. It is posted up here somewhere back about 3 years ago. Slowly brought the rpm's down to 6000 and ran the same number. But had stock E-heads. Took it to the dyno and the curve was flat from 5600 to 6200.

Same deal now. The stock e-heads flattened out at 6200. The higher flowing CV-1's it keeps pulling past 6500.
But like anything else i will play with it till i find that RPM sweet spot. Be it 6000 or 7000.

Will it break. Maybe. But not because of the combo. Sh*t happens. But like I tell my customers.

The only way to not tear anything up is stay home and watch it on ESPN.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by motor-daddy

I agree, stuff does happen. The question is at what extremes does it happen, and how "durable" is the item under extreme conditions.

Dude, you're leaving over 150 HP on the table. Do you think a hydraulic roller is capable of making that additional 150 HP? If not, what type of cam and lifter would you suggest to reach the 800 HP potential of the heads, speaking as a racer and not as an engine builder/businessman?

I'm not leaving anything on the table. I have a streetable maintainance free combo that runs on REAL pump gas and has great idle qualities.
You can take everyone's combo and go crazy with the parts. Not the deal.

This is not a full all out race engine. I had semi one of those when I ran 8.90's with stock suspension.
I built it to show people you can have a 10 second engine in your street car without a lot of chassis mods and have fun without all the tuning hassles. Basic parts, nothing trick. Same as those BBC and FORD Chrylser engine deals offered out there.

I ran 10.30's with out of the box E-heads with a 1.77 exh valve installed and gasket matched the heads to the intake. Something anyone can do. That's the whole point. And the reason for posting in the STREET section.

I have one cam step to go with a hydraulic roller profile and feel it will make around 700hp without touching the CV-1 heads.

No trick crank: Moldex std crank used out of Butler ole red 65. No knife edge, etc.
No trick rods: Std BME 6.8 BBC rods.
No trick pistons: My basic weight and ring pac BRC Flat top pistons.
No trick Ignition: std MSD dist & 8.5 wires.
No trick timing chain set up: double roller
No trick head work: Stock out of the box.
Port matched intake NOW: Ran it stock to 10.16@132
No trick Carb: std 1050 dominator just prepped by me.
Harland sharp 1.7 rockers.
5/16" pushrods.
No titanium valve: Just Ferrea SS 6000 series.
No trick oil pan: Canton with crank scrapper.
Melling oil pump with .060 shim.
Hooker over the counter #4202 2" headers.
Street car.

And Like i said. Between rounds or after a pass i just go into my trailer and relax. No covers to be pulled. LOL.

I'll be content with mid 9's and hess 93 octane. How far into the nines will just take time.
At least if i do break anything all the parts are basic over the counter items.

[slowbird]

We turn ours 6500rpm also with no problems. In my opinion valve control and lifter control is key to them living. You start bouncing things around in there and the roller wont be happy.

[Motor Daddy]

You ran 10.3 with out of the box e-heads? What is the total price difference between the out of the box e-head motor and your current CV-1 10.1X hydraulic roller setup? The CV-1's are capable of much more. Why go with a much more expensive CV-1 setup, when a out of the box e-head will go 10.3? After all, this isn't an "all out race motor," so why worry about a couple tenths? You could have a good down payment on a nice paint job with the extra cost to go a couple tenths quicker.

[Jack Gifford]

Originally Posted by motor-daddy

... What is the total price difference between the out of the box e-head motor and your current CV-1 10.1X hydraulic roller setup?
... Why go with a much more expensive CV-1 setup...

Instead of giving Pdude a chance to answer, you interjected your own answer- "much more expensive".
(I know I'll regret this post- I get the feeling it's like trying to win an argument with the wife)

[gtofreek]

Originally Posted by pontiac jack

Instead of giving Pdude a chance to answer, you interjected your own answer- "much more expensive".
(I know I'll regret this post- I get the feeling it's like trying to win an argument with the wife)

I know the feeling, believe me I DO!

[pro-tour79]

he's just at it again trying to say that P-dude ran fully assembled out of the box E-heads, but we all know that P-dude is talking about unported out of the box bare e-heads, BTW, NO engine builder/machine shop would buy fully assembled heads!

[PONTIAC DUDE]

No answer. MD. I don't mind helping others and supplying info so people can see results. Your retort is just agruement for arguements sake. Trying to create senerios that aren't senerios.

Have a nice day. I will.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

I will say this again. The E-heads wer purchased bare. I added the 1.77 exhaust valve because of the engine size and camshaft size. In the 260'[email protected] with .650 lift. I did have to clean up the entry and exit points of the E-heads because of the CNC deal Edelbrock does and stops about 1/2" in. Just a blend no port work. Nothing touched under the valve. The Victor intake was port matched to the heads and cleaned up around the cloverleaf to remove sharp edges only.

The CV-1 heads came with the seats done from Jim. I cut and installed valves only. A grinder never hit these heads or intake. The car ran roughly .2 faster and considering the times it has currently run in the 94 degreee muggy weather in the past was an estimated guesss on the safe side. I feel it was worth a .25 to .3 in those conditions.

I have now port matched the intake and blended in the cloverleaf under the carb to the ports. No radical port work. Just blending that any hobbyist can do with time spent.
Heading out to the track Sunday with this mod and a gear change from 4.10 to 3.90. Only because I feel it's gonna go faster and need to keep the same rpm thru the traps.

Looking for the 9's.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by pro-tour79

he's just at it again trying to say that P-dude ran fully assembled out of the box E-heads, but we all know that P-dude is talking about unported out of the box bare e-heads, BTW, NO engine builder/machine shop would buy fully assembled heads!

If I do. I take then apart and check them. I have had a pair of E-heads with 2 different style of spring cups. LOL>

[Cliff R]

Ken, better check EVERYTHING with the E-heads. The last set we used had 92 combustion chambers, and really stiff single springs w/dampner and retainers that looked like they were made in China!......Cliff

[Motor Daddy]

It doesn't matter which e-heads were used, the point is that Dude went 10.3 with a unported set of e-heads, and he went 10.1 with the CV-1's. The point is not whether Dude used bare castings or fully assembled e-heads, that's irrelevant.

I want to know how much more it costs to go .2 seconds quicker with the CV-1's, and why spend the extra money when it's not an all out race motor?

I want to know why it's a good idea to use more expensive 800 HP heads for a 650 HP application, when there are cheaper ways to make 650 HP?

[PONTIAC DUDE]

For the work done to set up the E-heads with 1.77 valves and entry clean up.............

Let's say................ $2200.00
Intake and port match & flange clean up. 325.00 for intake and $125.00 labor
Total......................$2650.00

CV-1 head complete no porting, out of the box........... $3,000
Dominator Intake .............. $425.00
Total...............$3425.00

Difference................. $775.00

Actually same conditions I feel the heads & Intake out of the box were worth .3 And absolutely no extra work involved in the CV-1 setup. More work involved in the Edelbrock set up for less HP.



Don't forget i had to give up my 2 1/8" into 2 1/4" into 4" collectors with the raised exh port and now have those cheap made Hooker #4202 headers. 2" into 3.5" collectors and same brand mufflers.
MD****** What is that loss worth with hp made?


When you reach a certain peak for that gain not bad. Not a race engine and in the low 10's to begin with, so that great a gain is great. Plus the availability of 425cfm plus with a later porting job if ya want to make power. Can't do that with the E-heads and if ya do get 350 plus. Get ready for $1400 shaft assembly and no hyd roller as it will require offset lifters.

380 cfm plus using std BBC rockers.


Next.
I now gasket matched and blended the carb flange, just like the Victor. Now we will see results again. Sunday.