[Skip Fix]

I wonder how Consumer Reports gets by with negative things on products that are factual?


I guess I'm still waiting for that answer from John or Maurice how products advertised as one thing (specific hole sizes machined in house -cam bearing etc, wall thickness, PSI cast iron, ) not delivered as such are Ok and defamed if the actual measurements and problems are spoken of. Please still explain, other than a mistake, all of these specs can be off from machining the bore of the block? Please explain a recall if there were not problems!! Or did someone else really do the recall?

Bet if Coan shipped you a 10" convertor stated as an 8" you bought, neither would be happy about it.

And yes I've had hands on a few products with issues so I think I can speak, have either you guys had personal hands on these problem parts/issues (not a different run block) to be able to deny them as you are? Seems like that is what you are pushing here- problems didn't happen but no hands on, but others with no hands on can't state them either????

I still say only the lawyers are making out on the deal.

[STALLION]

Originally Posted by Pontirag

Stallion didn't you make threats against others before? I thought we were going to keep it civil and verbal rather than physical threats.

Pontirag, Read post 262, If you can read and understand it, you will know what HANDLE IT means. I am inviting all you guys to my trailer just to say hi, like I do ever year. Now Pontirag show me where on post 262 did I threaten anyone!!! You guys are to much. Brian and you other guys read post 262. HANDLE IT , means, that you guys can't handle it that the Kauffman's are good people,that they would give you the shirts off their backs and EVEN give/lend you parts if you needed them!!! Skip Fix, read post 262. Now I can't even say good post. What ever Tom posted about (post 261)I, (ME) thought it was a good post. What the F##k is wrong with that. You guys are to much. Again Skip Fix, I have never said /posted anything about their advertised products or parts. Just that they are good people to ME, with the dealings I have had with them. NOW did you guys understand MY dealings WITH them. I have dealt with them I can comment about them. Skip, it is OK for you to post negative posts about them, your experiences with them, so what is your problem with me to post my positive dealings with them. Skip does it really bother you, Brian and the other Kauffman's haters that me or John have had good dealings with THEM and we don't mind sticking up for them !!! You guys are really to much. Scott, Brian and others, when I was going to court and before the case was over, my lawyer told me to shut up about the case. Do not talk to anyone about the case until it is over because (this is for you Brian) something you say might come back and GORE you !!! The Kauffman's are such terrible people that at the Norwalk race, the race cars have a hard time passing their pit area because of all the people around their pit. O yea don't forget about the money they put up for the race. THIS REALLY SUCKS. You guys should really give it a rest.

[Tom Vaught]

Quote:

"HANDLE IT , means, that you guys can't handle it that the Kauffman's are good people,that they would give you the shirts off their backs and EVEN give/lend you parts if you needed them!!!"

I really kind of doubt that Shirt statement on how it relates to me. When the Kauffmans were competing against the Butlers, the KRE guys had me pegged as a "Butler Man"
While I agree that I did help Jim Butler and David Butler over the years when they were getting bigger, I also helped hundreds of other people too. I spoke with them several times in person, (Mostly Steve). Steve does things his way and I do things my way. I am a Professional Engineer by trade, he is a part time Professional Engine Builder/ part time Farmer I assume.
His boys are full time engine builders/ cnc machinists I believe.

Prior to the effort to create/ sell the mentioned Engine Blocks, I don't think any of them had ever actually designed or were involved in designing an engine block.

They acquired some cores and some prints, went to a foundry, and attempted to help the Pontiac community with a competitive block to the IA-2 block. Chit happens. (More so with limited knowledge on what is involved.) As was said, with 30 years experience as a Professional Engineer for a major OEM, I would not think about trying to engineer a race block. I give them credit for trying.

JMO

Tom V.

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by STALLION

Pontirag, Read post 262, If you can read and understand it, you will know what HANDLE IT means. I am inviting all you guys to my trailer just to say hi, like I do ever year. Now Pontirag show me where on post 262 did I threaten anyone!!! You guys are to much. Brian and you other guys read post 262. HANDLE IT , means, that you guys can't handle it that the Kauffman's are good people,that they would give you the shirts off their backs and EVEN give/lend you parts if you needed them!!! Skip Fix, read post 262. Now I can't even say good post. What ever Tom posted about (post 261)I, (ME) thought it was a good post. What the F##k is wrong with that. You guys are to much. Again Skip Fix, I have never said /posted anything about their advertised products or parts. Just that they are good people to ME, with the dealings I have had with them. NOW did you guys understand MY dealings WITH them. I have dealt with them I can comment about them. Skip, it is OK for you to post negative posts about them, your experiences with them, so what is your problem with me to post my positive dealings with them. Skip does it really bother you, Brian and the other Kauffman's haters that me or John have had good dealings with THEM and we don't mind sticking up for them !!! You guys are really to much. Scott, Brian and others, when I was going to court and before the case was over, my lawyer told me to shut up about the case. Do not talk to anyone about the case until it is over because (this is for you Brian) something you say might come back and GORE you !!! The Kauffman's are such terrible people that at the Norwalk race, the race cars have a hard time passing their pit area because of all the people around their pit. O yea don't forget about the money they put up for the race. THIS REALLY SUCKS. You guys should really give it a rest.

Ahhhhhhhhhh, therein lies the rub. They have been good to YOU. Thank you for proving my point with your own words. Your ox has not been gored. Your experiences have been good, ergo, they are "good people". Your opinion is subjective, and ignores the whole objective view including how other customers have been treated by them, and the course of action some of them have had to take to be "made whole" from whatever transaction they engaged in with them. People are judged by whom they make their associations. If a friend of mine were pulling some of the same shenannigans they have pulled, they'd get a stern talking to, and if they continued, I'd cut all ties to them. Birds of a feather.....

[STALLION]

Tom, you are not one of the(you guys) I was referring to. I just thought your 261 post was good. Is that OK ? Brian, YES I will be in their corner, YES MY positive dealings with them. Why is it OK for you guys to post negative stuff about the Kauffman's, now I am a bad guy for saying that I have had good/great dealings with them. Isn't that hypocritical on your part Brian. I do deal with them and over the years I have dealt with most of the Pontiac engine builders. Some are good guys, some OK, some I will deal with when and if I have to.

[440GP69]

here lyes the issue this really did happen its not a figment of DI,SKIP,SteveC's imagination!!! THINK about that this isn't a lie! They have produced the cold hard facts! it sucks this is happening ! DI was told to F-OFF long before he said anything! if i sold you a known or unknown bad part for 3000$ and you called and wanted to return it and get your money back and i said GET F***** you would be in that buisness entities forum so fast your head would spin! so why when you aren't in their shoes do you continually give them he** for stating the facts?? yes you had good experiences with them and continue to tell us about it yet if they ask questions and talk about the way their deal went down you get mad? these are public forums and there is no rule that you have to know someone directly to be able to talk to people that do. PS come down to the tiger run in bend or. and i will buy you lunch! good day!

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by STALLION

Tom, you are not one of the(you guys) I was referring to. I just thought your 261 post was good. Is that OK ? Brian, YES I will be in their corner, YES MY positive dealings with them. Why is it OK for you guys to post negative stuff about the Kauffman's, now I am a bad guy for saying that I have had good/great dealings with them. Isn't that hypocritical on your part Brian. I do deal with them and over the years I have dealt with most of the Pontiac engine builders. Some are good guys, some OK, some I will deal with when and if I have to.

Where have you seen me post that it's wrong for you to post what you have? There's nothing inherently wrong with having a subjective viewpoint, except that it never addresses "both sides" of a situation or argument, and often involves emotion, which can cloud judgement. Your whole defense of REK brings to mind the fable of the frog and scorpion:

http://www.allaboutfrogs.org/stories/scorpion.html

Your carrying them across that river, Mo...because they have been good to you...when instead you should be wary of their nature.

[Skip Fix]

Maurice, and probably John it doesn't bother me that you have had good dealings with them and get good servive(thought I did at one time too). That is great, hope that is how everyone get dealt with by them or any other supplier for ever.

I guess the issue in THIS particular issue, they basically said to several folks there were no problems, when there have been documented problems. So in THIS particular case to stick up for them says everyone else is wrong and those issues aren't real,eventhough they recalled some other blocks. And saying that someone speaking out about a poorly made product is defamation as they are.

To say "the Kaufmans have treated me right and I don't understand their position when you have documented problems" would be different than what I read into your posts,sorry if I read them wrong. Hope you do continue to have good dealings with them and that they do continue to make good products that no one has issues with and they make a decent living at it.

I also hope the other parties get it resolved without the lawyers making a few house payments form both sides. I stand by my earlier statement a few blocks will end up cheaper than the legal fees.

[67 455 Bird ragtop]

This is getting to be better than any soap opera ....

[Brian Baker]

Skip posted:

"...they recalled some other blocks."

I know you've been keeping up with what has been going on, Skip, but for those that haven't, or for those that can't "handle it", here's clarification. They recalled ALL of their MR-1 straight main cap blocks...not some, all. Not ALL of their customers that purchased said block however received a recall letter, so I guess that's where you can say "...they recalled some other blocks", Skip.

The picture I've attached is a photcopy/scan of an actual recall letter received by one of their customers.

[jimmy daniel]

I wish someone could put this in a very short story so I could catch up. I'm trying but it's so much reading. I'm sure when I buy a block for my 63 it will be an IA-2.

[Chris Roach]

Originally Posted by jimmy daniel

I wish someone could put this in a very short story

In short –

• K&M produces an aftermarket block with quality issues.
• Some customers of block have experiencing questionable customer service.
• This horse has been beaten so brutally that all’s left is a crushed pile of bones.
• Some still think the horse will move.

[fastgto]

Up until now May 14th 2008 I was going to still purchase a block from these fellows figuring all the kinks were worked out and they were a little cheaper than the other guys but after reading the recall letter posted by B.B. { thanks B.B. } I will NOT be
purchasing one from them. All I can say is WOW what a huge pile of dung. This is so sad now it is starting to make me laugh.

Must have original bill { Are there records so screwed up they don`t have a copy }

Customer must pay all shipping costs back { Duh WHAT! it`s your recall your mistake}

Will reship back in the U.S. only { Huh... what does it matter your mistake }

I`m glad somebody posted the recall letter. I gave them benifit of doubt until I read the recall letter. Very unfair of them to put any rules for a return on a faulty product that is recalled when the customer has bought from them on good faith and hard earned cash.
TOTALLY unacceptable in my opinion.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Might check the current warranty periods on said products too.

Also check the time allowed on that recall letter

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by Chris Roach

In short –

• K&M produces an aftermarket block with quality issues.
• Some customers of block have experiencing questionable customer service.
• This horse has been beaten so brutally that all’s left is a crushed pile of bones.
• Some still think the horse will move.

Bwahahahahahahahaha.

* Customer had issues with purchased product & the way he claims defective product was handled and refused.

* Business has problem with said customers verbal complaints of said issue.

* Business is suing customer for said verbal & internet complaints and wants the hearing in their state.

* Customer being sued wants it the hearing in the state he purchased the product.

Then you have........ When was K & M formed or was KRE selling and producing the blocks from the get go? Which business invested, produced, sold and received money on said product.

The opinions of the Judges and final hearing might affect all consumers and business doing business USA wide.

Correct me if I'm wrong. But if it passes. A person slamming verbally a business in another state proven wrongfully, can be sued by that business in the state the business is in and the consumer would have to make the trip. If he doesn't a judgement on his property or him can be made.

[Skip Fix]

"This horse has been beaten so brutally that all’s left is a crushed pile of bones." And some don't seem to admit it was ever beaten, or needing beating to begin with to break down

"The opinions of the Judges and final hearing might affect all consumers and business doing business USA wide." I have a feeling that those judges are wanting their 15 minutes of fame and using this case as one to get it.

Not being a lawyer, but you would think there would be plenty of precedent for newspapers in one state printing something about a person in another state the give some legal guidelines.

[Brian Baker]

If the horse truly were beaten to death, guys like Jimmy Daniel and fastgto would be saying "thanks, but I already know that...next? ".....but they're not.

To be fair, the only MR-1 blocks that were known to have physical problems were the straight main cap variety...to date the splayed main cap MR-1 blocks have no publicly known issues, if any issues at all.

K&M was not registered as a business in Ohio prior to November 2006 (when most, if not all, of these defective MR-1 blocks were sold...Coombes, Spidel's, Fix's and Roberts' blocks at least qualifiy). It stands to reason then that for tax filing purposes, these blocks were manufactured and sold under REK.

Requiring a receipt for return is not a bad thing. I can't think of any retail store that would allow a return without a receipt. It also protects the company from a "straw" or 3rd party return (ie - REK sells block to Joe who then sells it to JimBob and JimBob tries to return it for a refund). I would tend to think however that when doing a voluntary safety recall that having a receipt would be secondary, and making sure a defective block isn't used would be primary. The laws pertaining to recalls may be different from state to state in how it is enforced.

[fastgto]

One more thing after reading the recall letter again I would like to see what the people defending them think about the recall letter. You best read it 5 times cause I`m sure in a good state of mind { not drunk, not stoned } how can one think that they are being fair and up front. And no a reciept should not matter in a case like this, it`s not like they sold 15 million blocks and don`t know what`s what. A name should be sufficent. Also people like B.B. I think are keeping this going and I appreciate it has I don`t think he cares one way or the other who sold what. All the people want is a fair shake. And NO I have not met B.B. yet, but who knows might just hop on a plane and head out to the left coast Hee Hee Hee.....

[Skip Fix]

"One more thing after reading the recall letter again I would like to see what the people defending them think about the recall letter. You best read it 5 times cause I`m sure in a good state of mind { not drunk, not stoned } how can one think that they are being fair and up front. " That's the $64,000 question that never seems to get answered.


Forgot mine on that list Brian.

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by fastgto

One more thing after reading the recall letter again I would like to see what the people defending them think about the recall letter. You best read it 5 times cause I`m sure in a good state of mind { not drunk, not stoned } how can one think that they are being fair and up front. And no a reciept should not matter in a case like this, it`s not like they sold 15 million blocks and don`t know what`s what. A name should be sufficent. Also people like B.B. I think are keeping this going and I appreciate it has I don`t think he cares one way or the other who sold what. All the people want is a fair shake. And NO I have not met B.B. yet, but who knows might just hop on a plane and head out to the left coast Hee Hee Hee.....

I'm on the RIGHT coast.

Again, to be fair, they at least recognized a problem and tried to do something to correct/rectify it. It's how they went about trying to rectify the problem that has come under scrutiny.