[rad400]

Ken, how much gain do you think will be see with alittle bit of work to the CV-1 heads?

[Motor Daddy]

What's the difference in PERFORMANCE between the $1800 complete, out of the catalog version vs the $2650 version?

Any change of header required for CV-1 swap?

Any other additional expense involved with CV-1 swap, such as valve covers, rockers, pushrods, head bolts, gaskets, etc etc???

[Motor Daddy]

Originally Posted by PONTIAC DUDE

Next.
I now gasket matched and blended the carb flange, just like the Victor. Now we will see results again. Sunday.

How much does that cost? It sounds quite expensive.

[Motor Daddy]

Originally Posted by rad400

Ken, how much gain do you think will be see with alittle bit of work to the CV-1 heads?

The heads are not the restriction, the cam and low RPM are.

[GTOLou]

Originally Posted by motor-daddy

It doesn't matter which e-heads were used, the point is that Dude went 10.3 with a unported set of e-heads, and he went 10.1 with the CV-1's. The point is not whether Dude used bare castings or fully assembled e-heads, that's irrelevant.

I want to know how much more it costs to go .2 seconds quicker with the CV-1's, and why spend the extra money when it's not an all out race motor?

I want to know why it's a good idea to use more expensive 800 HP heads for a 650 HP application, when there are cheaper ways to make 650 HP?

I wonder if edelbrock will flex it's financial muscle and build a better head with a 21st century combustion chambers and put half of these start-up head makers out of business?

I won't buy the current eheads. I won't miss the 38-40 degrees total timing and running hot issues.





A lot of us are keeping an eye on the CV-1's. They are costly, especially with valve covers and intake. ??Maybe the HP's are a more cost-effective option for a 650hp street/strip build?? I don't know, but a new head purchase is in my future for my 535 IA II that has already been ordered. I watching Dude's progress closely.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by motor-daddy

What's the difference in PERFORMANCE between the $1800 complete, out of the catalog version vs the $2650 version?

????????? I wouldn't use the fubared $1800 out of the box E-heads. Quality control is not there. Std seals. blah, blah. But 99% of the shops sell a cleaned up version for $2200.00 and that's cheap for the time involved. Especially when you have to take the CNC portion of the E-head and match it to the rest of the port. Then you have the drain holes in the E-heads that need redone. Recheck installed height.

Any change of header required for CV-1 swap?

Moving a few tubes. I had big custom tube 2 1/4" for my e-heads and barely fit the way they were done. But if i had both heads available at the time i coulda had one set made to fit both styles. Currently using the Hooker with 2 tubes heated and moved on the drivers side. Pass side was OK.


Any other additional expense involved with CV-1 swap, such as valve covers, rockers, pushrods, head bolts, gaskets, etc etc???

That's what's nice about these heads. Takes the same priced parts as the E-heads.
That's why i posted the parts list in other posts to show nothing was changed to sway the results.

For the power gain at that ET and future possibilities the price difference is cheaper then any I have run across in 30 plus years.

Does a 450hp combo need them? No. But if you in the 600 hp and up club. It's a viable option worth considering.


I put the info out there. People can pick and choose.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by motor-daddy

The heads are not the restriction, the cam and low RPM are.

RPM ........ no.

Cam .... could be depending on the grind.

Heads out of the box are not the restiction.

The intake is............. as produced. but with MINOR massaging not an issue.

[Motor Daddy]

OK, so we'll go with the $2200 version, not the $2650 version or the $1800 version. The $2,200 version is the "average."

So now the difference is $1,225.00 between the E-head 10.3 second motor and the CV-1 10.1 second motor. That still doesn't include the price of the additional items required for the CV-1 setup. Let's just round off the total price difference to $2,000 for .2 seconds drop in ET that isn't even a all out race motor. If it were an all out race motor it would be turning more RPM to make the 800 HP. The hydraulic roller will not make the 800 HP, because it can't RPM like a solid roller. Sure, the heads have the potential for 800 HP, STOCK, but the hydraulic roller seems to be the restricting factor. Put a solid roller and twist that sucker up to about 7,500 shift point and you'll see low 9's, but not with a hydraulic roller.

[TinjunTribe]

Originally Posted by motor-daddy

OK, so we'll go with the $2200 version, not the $2650 version or the $1800 version. The $2,200 version is the "average."

So now the difference is $1,225.00 between the E-head 10.3 second motor and the CV-1 10.1 second motor. That still doesn't include the price of the additional items required for the CV-1 setup. Let's just round off the total price difference to $2,000 for .2 seconds drop in ET that isn't even a all out race motor.

One key statement Dude made was regarding his time (time needed to mod the e-heads). MD, can you tell us the opportunity cost value of time lost by Dude working the E-heads vs. servicing racers/cruisers he supports, and building crated engines, doing R&D, etc? Quite possibly, the customer may pay a bit more for something (that at least has more upward HP potential anyhow than the Edel product), but how about it from the business owners standpoint? Quite possibly his time is worth more spent in other areas of business/life, and letting the mfr. of the CV heads have the money out of the box. So what is his current opportunity cost on his time?

How hard to bear is the $775 incremental cost in the comparable E heads on an engine that is likely already in the 10-12-15K range. I wouldn't cry about an additional +8%, 7%, or 5%, more cost especially when the product has more ET potential built into it.

Quite possibly there are combinations of parts out there that are much more expensive than the combo Dude listed, that runs the same ET as him, why not use one of them as a standard of comparison to show how cheap $ per ET his combo is?......oh, that wouldn't suit your argument now would it .

Maybe he could have run the same ET with a rare vintage magnesium 60's intake worth a grand.......and make his build relatively cheaper that's about as arbitrary & random a selection of parts to compare to from his listed combo of components as your selection of his choice in heads.

How many parts could be chosen that perform the same but cost MORE than his selection? Who said he is only building the cheapest possible (vs. reliability and future flexibility/upward HP potential)

Sounds like the HR rollers can turn RPMs, I feel more confident in my engine now, thanks for the R&D feedback Dude.

[Motor Daddy]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not against Dude's offering, or its price, or the value of Dude's time spent. I'm mainly in retaliation to the idea of only making 650 HP with 380 CFM heads when 650 HP can be had much cheaper.

You should have to request an exception to policy in order to install a hydraulic roller with stock 380 CFM heads! Solid roller is the default for serious power with a pushrod V8.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by motor-daddy

Don't get me wrong. I'm not against Dude's offering, or its price, or the value of Dude's time spent. I'm mainly in retaliation to the idea of only making 650 HP with 380 CFM heads when 650 HP can be had much cheaper.

You should have to request an exception to policy in order to install a hydraulic roller with stock 380 CFM heads! Solid roller is the default for serious power with a pushrod V8.

I can't seem to get it thru to you so I will just give it up. I didn't request anything. You want to change the rules to suit you. If so go build your own combo and show us realworld results and the price to do it????????????????

I keep telling you that when I ran 10.30's it was 75 degrees and cool temps. Was 94 degrees and muggy when it went 10 teens without touching anything internall up top.

Street package on 93 octane and a no maintainance camshaft.


This is all not settled. Wait till Monday til I get to the track with the blended intake. Then if it runs 9's you tell me if it's worth $800 for a 1/2 second.

[Motor Daddy]

Originally Posted by PONTIAC DUDE

This is all not settled. Wait till Monday til I get to the track with the blended intake. Then if it runs 9's you tell me if it's worth $800 for a 1/2 second.

I'll buy you an ice cream cone at Norwalk* (not a pound ) if you run a 9.xx on the next time at the track.


*Both parties must be present for the free ice cream give away. If one party doesn't show, for any reason, the deal is null and void and no free ice cream cone is further required. No rain checks.

[Cliff R]

Ken, what the h$lls the matter with ya only running LOW 10's with your pump gas 380 cfm headed mountain motor? Don't piss him off, he's liable to race you at Norwalk and hit the nitrous on his 12.80 car and leave you in the dust!

Hey, where's my pound of ice cream?......Cliff

[69Goat1]

Originally Posted by PONTIAC DUDE

Pontiac Automotive urban legends.


I'll be at VMP end of the month, driving my cart around in the pits watching all the Pontiac racers checking their lash over the weekend or **relaxing** between passes.

PD - If anyone is having to set lash with a solid roller between rounds they haven't done something right... I set the lash on mine May of last year and have not had the VC's off since. I have well over 200 passes on it since then and it still runs the same and sounds the same as last year. 10.4's when it is cool, 10.5's when it is hot and muggy... this is a mild E-headed 462, cast stock crank, 6.625 Scat Rods, and I race on 104 and cruise on 93 - could probably race and cruise on 93 but I am a worry wart on stuff like that. Car weighs 3515 race ready and I run a MT ET Street Radial tire - I runnered up in AFX (Quick No-E) at Tulsa's Pontiac Race this past weekend and never have to work on anything - just jump in it, fire it, and go - walk around between rounds and talk to people...

And for whoever said E-heads run hot mine never get over 180 in the hottest weather...

Don't take this wrong - just letting people know a solid roller is not the lash setting nightmare some are making it out to be...

BTW - we just used your Shim Kit in my cousins 400 with 455 crank deal and it worked out nice

[gtofreek]

Originally Posted by GTOLou

I wonder if edelbrock will flex it's financial muscle and build a better head with a 21st century combustion chambers and put half of these start-up head makers out of business?

They never will until people quit buying what they already make. If it still sells, where's the incentive to change it. Plus, with the cost to re-tool up to make a new chamber, they better believe that they will sell a butt load of them or they won't do it.

[rad400]

Md Cliff's ice cream

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Before & after pics

[Motor Daddy]

Originally Posted by PONTIAC DUDE

Before & after pics

Count the hours carefully.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

More pics before & after. On the underside pics. Jim didn't have time to do the CNC program to 45 degree it. Sent it to me straight cut. All current intakes are angle cut to the ports.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by motor-daddy

Count the hours carefully.

I just close my eyes and point the grinder in the general direction and will it to do it's work.

If it doesn't pick up substancially I'll be disappointed.