[Tom63LeMans]

Found this ad in the local Craigslist; http://cleveland.craigslist.org/car/688692910.html

According to the owner:
1961 PONTIAC TEMPEST - one of only 14 known running in the United States - $3000 (west of mansfield)

[Engine-Ear]

Nice ride...I like the cynder blocks under the car...????

mechanickeith is rare! (he's only one of 14!)

[mechanickeith]

I would like to know where he got his numbers & how he can confirm them. I know I have the only 61 Coupe on the road in Arizona. That one is getting pretty rare also. It is the standard coupe, notice the larger wrap around rear window, & should also have a bench seat & plastic floor mats. Pretty standard car, no bumper guards or fender spears on the side of the fenders, poverty caps. I like the compass that has been screwed to the dash!!!! It does have a few options, push button radio, automatic, delux horn ring that I can see.

[TempestFugit]

I'm surprised there are that many... The operative word here is 'known' (also 'running' but that's another story). Assuming that he means stock with original drive-train intact and that it also means, registered, and/or actively used or shown at mainline shows or local cruises, (Could NOT be talking about driven daily, everybody knows mechanickeith has the only 'known' one of those) I'd bet that number is in the ballpark. Also assuming that he's off by a factor of ten, taking into consideration cars tucked away at present, (although, if there were THAT many, "WE" would have heard of somebody who knows somebody who knows of them) we're looking at maybe a hundred cars or an average of two per state. Doubling THAT number still isn't many and the majority would be cases of "well it ran when it was put it that field..." (10, 20, 30 years ago...).

Lets face it... for the past 30 years these cars were certainly not considered collectible, more like albatrosses (mostly due to the double curse of an Achilles heel drive-train and ‘non-interchangeability’ of parts, but also because the dark art of transaxle maintenance had been lost to following generations). It’s only recently (and because familiarity breeds Camaros,) that the uniqueness and rarity of these cars is being seen in a new light.

[Keith Seymore]

I believe Mike W here in Michigan has two (as well as a '62 and a '63 convert).

K

[Stuart]

There's a very nice '61 four door four cylinder car I see at the car shows here in Minnesota from time to time. I believe it still belongs to the original owner, and it has extremely low miles...I can't remember exactly but I'm pretty sure it's less than 30,000.

[azkeebler]

I know of one daily driver '61 in Selma. There is another in Lodi for sale and needs a tune up and battery, but was too a daily driver.

Here I thought I was the only one with a '61 in Arizona. I had one in Bisbee ,Arizona before I moved here to cali. That car must be down there somewhere still. I left it and brought my '62 convertible tempest and '72 formula. Didn't have room for everyone.

I believe that posting got his numbers from a recent ebay listing of a very nice museum condition light blue '61 tempest that I may remember had similiar being stated in it's description.

A few years back in HPP, and article on these indians had even lower numbers showing only 50 of all three years existing, 3 '63's, 2 '62's, and only one '61 in good enough shape for pictures. At the time, they were I believe, Mike Smith's white '62 convertible Lemans, and his maroon daily driver '61 4-door.

[importsmasher]

I remember that HPP article. They were talking about somewhere around 50 of all three years were in the Pontiac Oakland Club (they weren't saying that was all left in existence). I suspect that there are more Tempest owners not in the club than in it....I have a 62 LeMans daily driver and 4 other Pontiacs, and I'm not in it...
Importsmasher

[azkeebler]

Originally Posted by importsmasher

I remember that HPP article. They were talking about somewhere around 50 of all three years were in the Pontiac Oakland Club (they weren't saying that was all left in existence). I suspect that there are more Tempest owners not in the club than in it....I have a 62 LeMans daily driver and 4 other Pontiacs, and I'm not in it...
Importsmasher

Thank you for clearing my goof up. I didn't have the article on hand, but you are correct, they were refering to those in the club at the time. That was many years ago. Back when boneyard Stan had his old yard,too. R.I.P. Stan

[mechanickeith]

Several years ago I sat down with the POCI roster & went through every name listed for all of POCI. I found 11 people who were listed as having a 1961 model 2117 or 2127 2 dr cp. How accurate those numbers are today is any body's guess!!

What I like about our little cars is just how rare they are getting. Take one to a car show, it will be the only one there!! I have a flywheel with a rope shaft bolted to it that I sometimes set out in front of my car at shows. I get a real kick seeing the confusion on peoples faces trying to figure it out.

[beemergary]

Hope to have my 61-421 4sp wagon at Norwalk. The only other wagon I know of is Jim Picketts ram air V. I talked to a fellow the other day who does service work on an older fellas 61. Funny thing its just down the road from a friend of mine who has a 61 and 63 and another friend who has two 63s but none of us have seen or heard about it. A 63 wagon went to auction that been in a garage since 73 and was purchased fron an older lady who ordered it new. Looked show room condition in picture. Goes to show ya there out there.

[wv65gto]

I have a 61' two door 443 that runs and drives but I haven't had it out for about three years. Unfortunately the car spent some time in Ohio so it has more than it's share of rust. It was sold new from the Pontiac Motor Division retail store in Pontiac MI. It's body number is 2013 so I think it's a fairly early two door. It was made May 24, 1961. My PHS says that they only made 7432 two doors and only 1082 XS engines. Any thoughts or information about the car would be appreciated. Donnie in central WV.

[Habanero]

I got a 61 4 door,,, runs and a 63 lemans
on page 2 on my cardomian page

[67SS&99SS]

Before I started working on this 62 for my mother, I would have had no problem believing that. I have never seen one of these cars in person or on the net until she bought hers. Since then I have only seen one other one, and it was a 62 convert. I have never seen a 61 or 63 in person. I've been going to car shows for the last 15 years or so. I've seen tons of GTOs, Firebirds, Trans Ams, Catalinas, Bonnevilles, 64 and up Tempests, but it seems like these little cars were just forgotten about.

[Keith Seymore]

FWIW -

I talked to Mike W today; he is planning on bringing his '61 to the Sloan Museum "Summer Fest" this Sunday (Flint Michigan).

If you are in the area feel free to drop by.

K

[TempestFugit]

So, anybody keeping count? did we break into the double digits yet?

[dr-doug]

I just had someone give me a call, he has three cars he wants to sell. A 61 chevy with 12K miles that still has the plastic on the seats, a '66 galaxy 500 with 30K miles, and interestingly enough a '61 tempest with a 4 cylinder 4 barrel.
He wasn't to specific on the Pontiacs condition, but I'm going to look at them this weekend. I'll take pictures and post them to get your opinions on value..I don't have a clue. DW

[Cheyenne]

LeMans 4 cyl,automatic 2 bbl,,still alive

[hootsk]

Is that a '61 LeMans? Surely that's a rare beast.

[mechanickeith]

62 by vin number, has a 61 front clip on it.